I have done TONS of research recently into DCC for my new layout. I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person and had narrowed the choice down to MRC Prodigy Advance or Digitrax Zephyr with an additional throttle (DT400 or UT4. I even went so far as to read the manuals online and here is what I discovered in a nutshell:
Digitrax has great expandabiity and I like the idea of possibly hooking up to a computer someday as I am a tech nut (although i don’t know how much fun computer control would be - anybody have thoughts on that? - I’m curious). However, I can find their manuals a bit complex and sometimes above my head (I am a college graduate, Jesuit educated, run my own business, so I’m no dummy). I also wasn’t thrilled with their hand-held throttle designs. But I was willing to deal with that because I liked the system but then I read that recent thread on Zephyr and have been re-thinking my choice.
MRC Prodigy Advance has it all over Digitrax on ease of use and has the features I really want (turnout switching, accesory decoders for crosiing lights, etc). This is a simple statement but is often a highly underrated statement. I read their manual online cover to cover and actually understood ALL of it in about 15 min’s. I also like their throttle design (easy to read) although i do not know if it has a backlit display - does anyone know this? There is one major problem for me with the MRC which is why I had chosen Digitrax. You cannot run an analog loco (one without a decoder) on the MRC Prodigy Advance system. They state this on the first page of the manual and say it is because it slows down the system (anyone know if this is true?). I was crushed.
My problem is this - Is it easier to wade thru the techno jargon with Digitrax OR just add decoders to my old analog engines? I only have about five but some of them are classic and may not take a decoder. Namely, one Italian train I bought in Europe 25 years ago and a German train bought at the same time. I also hav
Well, I have to say, i haven’t found my Digitrax stuff to be overly complex. I actually like the throttle design, at least the DT400 - I can comfortably hold it in my left hand (I am right-handed) and operate the throttle with my thumb, while I use my right hand to uncouple cars and whatever. The ability to have active control over two trains at the same time with the DT400 is a great help when operating alone. The problem is, in the Digitrax manuals they include EVERYTHING (and AJ, the designer, is quite a techie). The Zephyr manual is extremely easy to understand - first couple of pages gets you running a trian, no wierd techie stuff there. The MRC PA probably does many of the same techie things - only they don’t tell you about it. Maybe they have some sort of technical manual available for when you want to go beyond the basics. Keep in mind large sections of the manual, such as the details on all the configuration settings for the DT400, are there more for informational purposes than for any real need - it’s not likely you’d ever need to change any of those. This is what I mean by them telling you EVERYTHING. Actually selecting and running a loco is easy on ANY system, and the steps are nearly identical. Press a button, pu***he appropriate numbers, push another button, and you are running. You’ll probably never need to go beyond the first section that tells you how to select and run a train.
I have my computer hooked up to mine, but not for automated operations. I use JRMI software to program and I am beginning to work on a CTC panel. Signalling can be fairly easy, as you can use an all-Loconet solution with Digitrax and not ave to run all kinds of extra wires all over. All controlled by the free JMRI software.
The ‘complexiety’ of various boosters not all having the same features is I suppose the cost of having a variety of products. It’s actually the comamnd station that has or doesn’t have certain features, used as a booster they are all the same. There are 3 options with Digitrax. The Zephyr,
I was hoping you would read my post Randy. I understand you are the DCC guru around here. The PA throttle is not backlit? That is lame, was a key point for me. I like night operations - lots of fun. I saw that the DT400 has two throttles and and I like the Zephyr look and feel. I was thinking of getting the Zephyr with a DT400 throttle. The Zephyr (and my old MRC throttle as jump throttle) for the kids and the DT400 for me May have to get more power in the future but 4 trains with sound should be plenty for my layout. I like the features of Digitrax and it’s expandability. I understood the stuff I read for Digitrax and after a while I figured out that some of my confusion was all their different options which is actually a plus. Just have to be aware of things like the SEB being outdated. I did notice it does not have the function capabilities of the SC and figured out to keep clear of it on my own. But as you stated before, they really should be more clear about stuff like that.
I’m glad to hear hooking up to a computer is not that hard. I can get around a computer pretty well and figured out already that with transponders and detectors, I could set up a signalling system which I would really like someday. Thanks for your reply, Randy, I appreciate it.
Do you know of anyone who has wired decoders in old European engines? Can it be done?
Randy A little info on the MRC cab design. I posted a ? in the other forum about the design change & it got buryed with only 1 response i know there are more users than that. I got my MRC PE about 2 weeks ago & the cab is more like the PA not at all like the PE shown. My PE cab controls that are the same as the PA are, loco,prog,del,light,enter,direction,recall,spd step,stop. No horn or bell shown. I was trying to see when they made the change. I did not realise the change till after useing it and then saw the add again and thought i had been given the wrong cab by mistake, but after checking it is the PE. I think i might go and bump up my post.
Interesting - either they got enough bad feedback or someone at MRC took a look prior to production and realized the mistake. Good to know the picture in the ad is incorrect.
You can put a decoder in anything - it’s all a question of how hard you want to work. The key element is being able to completely isolate the motor - neither terminal on the motor can connect in any way to the rails. Many older locos have one motor bru***ied to the motor case which in turn is attached to the metal frame of the loco, which connects to one of the rails. Some are easier to isolate than others. A couple of good places to check out are the Digitrax site and also TCS. TCS has a lot of user-submitted pictures of wierd installs.
MRC for simplicity. Digitrax for complete flexibility. Sure theres a learning curve of which I’m still on the uphill side of. I’m poor at logical skills but if I hang in there I’ll eventually get it. But like the man said “you can put a decoder in anything”. I hope one of these days to get a decoder on my turntable.
I think NCE makes decent products, but I also think the PowerCab has some serious flaws.
First, you cannot unplug the “main” throttle to move to another location or you will shut the entire system down. So unless you buy another throttle, your “walk-around” system isn’t really walk-around except to the extent the cord lets you do so.
Also, on the ProCab, the computer interface dosn’t give you access to all the command buss traffic (probably because it’s a polled buss). Not sure yet about the PowerCab’s computer interface since it hasn’t been released the last time I checked. But I’d be surprised if it’s any different since both systems share a common command buss philosophy.
Out of the three (PowerCab, PE/PA, Zephyr) the Zephyr would be my choice hands-down.
I know that the PE has memory to let you unplug and move around. It will be a tough choice to make. I know i just went through it. I got the PE because it was right for me and my layout. As said by others when i was looking, the one you choose should be right for YOU.
A computer interface with DCC is oh so much more than just “computer control”!
How about a printable inventory of all your decoder settings, not to mention the ability to easily move those settings from one loco to another?
Spent hours on that speed table (although a computer interface could also reduce that time), and then a derailment let the magic smoke out of your decoder? No problem, pop in a new one and re-load your saved speed table.
How about layout automation (as opposed to “control”)? Set up a script so the departure announcement plays just as the bell starts ringing on that passenger loco…
I could go on, but you get the picture. After having used JMRI (http://jmri.sourceforge.net/index.html) I would never even consider a DCC system without a computer interface.
BZZZT, wrong answer! [:D] JMRI’s built-in signal logic and tools make it easy, especially if you use Digitrax’s SE8c’s or C/MRI. See: http://jmri.sourceforge.net/apps/Signalling/
Surfstud. Rinker is quite right about being able to put a decoder in anything ( you should see my water pic). You might want to consider upgrading the motors in those old locos, since you’re going to have them torn down anyway. You will avoid some of the electrical isolation problems and lower the current draw. A couple of old locos running at the same time could draw over an amp, thus cutting down on how many locos you can have in operation at one time.
Also MRC is developing a wireless control which will be an upgrade to the Prodigy Advance System. This is about a year off.
Later this month, MRC should release their newest decoders. I’m told they are much smaller and should fit in anything and come with sound at the Brillance decoder level. I believe the msrp will be about $80. We’ll see.
Great stuff guys! Thank you. Yea, I really like the idea of computer interfacing with the DCC system. That is cool that you can store decoder settings on the PC. At first I thought the PC was strictly for CTC but from talking to you guys - I now see the possibilites. I love the tech side of this hobby and have been dying to get a new layout going since the advent of DCC. I can see myself adding a signalling system, crossing signals,CTC , for a truly high tech layout. The automation will really help a sole operator like me.
Will replacing the engines in my old European trains kill their collectible value? Not that I really care as I had no intention of ever selling them but I am curious.
I have the MRC PA, a Digitrax DB150 Empire Builder, and the NCE PowerCab. I got the MRC PA, and then picked up the Empire Builder off eBay to program decoders. I discovered that because I just like to run trains and not worry so much about prototypical speed curves, that I never use the computer programming option anymore. It is just as easy to do what I want to do through the throttle. Just so you are aware you will need to purchase a LocoBuffer 2 or LocoBuffer USB in order to use a computer with the Zephyr.
I use the MRC PA for my 19 X 14 HO scale layout and I use the NCE PowerCab for my n scale coffee table. I decided on the PowerCab for the sole reason that the command station is the handheld. Stevert pointed out that it has to stay plugged in for the layout to work, but because it plugs in with a 6 pair telephone cable, you can get any length and still use it as a walkaround. For my table, the 6 foot cable that it comes with is more than enough. There are some quirks with any system and I think either the PA or the Zephyr would work for you. The one thing that I really like about the PA is the display on the handheld. It is not backlit, but the information is easily readable on it and very clear.
Yea Kevin that’s what I liked about the MRC throttle too (and larger knob). I like both systems very much and even with future expandability I probably wouldn’t need more than the PA (famous last words). I really like Digitrax expandability. I can see my RR expanding to as many as three rooms in the future and being a PC nut I can see me setting up CTC and monitors and all kinds of neat stuff.
Kevin and those who have MRC PA, you do not find a problem with the throttle not being backlit? Also, you don’t find the lack of ability to run analog locos a pain?
I have not had an issue with the throttle not being backlit. I sometimes operate in low-light conditions, but never in complete darkness. The display is so big that even in low light you can see what it says. I just started in MR about 3 years ago, so I did not have a large amount of locos without decoders. Most of the engines that I have bought were DCC ready, so I just put decoders in them. I have several brass engines that I have purchased that I intend to put decoders in as well, but I am in no hurry. I just take one of them on at a time.
The NCE systems also do not support running an analog loco anymore. From some of the posts that I have read, I don’t think I would want to run an analog loco on a DCC system anyway.
Kevin, I suppose that’s true about running an analog loco on DCC. But I can see where it might come in handy in a bind. Try telling your kid he can’t run the engine he got at Disney World until dad puts in the decoder [:)] (Don’t laugh, I really do have a Disney loco in HO scale). There was alot of to do about NMRA’s decision to not make running an analog loco on DCC standard. I still haven’t been able to really find out why.
Glad to hear no probs with the throttle. I really like MRC’s stuff. As stated in my original post - it is a tough decision.
May have to get more power in the future but 4 trains with sound should be plenty for my layout. I like the features of Digitrax and it’s expandability. I understood the stuff I read for Digitrax and after a while I figured out that some of my confusion was all their different options which is actually a plus. Just have to be aware of things like the SEB being outdated. I did notice it does not have the function capabilities of the SC and figured out to keep clear of it on my own. But as you stated before, they really should be more clear about stuff like that.