Harold drives home an important point. The injection molding industry was the first to be set to Mexico and Asia. There is still a lot of equipment available, but very little available capital to fund a new production facility. Compound that problem with few “craftsmen” able to build new tooling at any cost. Many of the Asian manufacturers own the tooling that produces the models. I’ve been in the tool & die business since 1965, and it ain’t what it used to be! Can it come back? I certainly hope so. .
Sheldon?
Bob, I am the OP. CMT (Canadian Model Trains) did not receive the email. They wrote it. They sent it to me and I posted it here for you.
The CMT News Flash should not confuse you.Their email laid out the problem: a competitor has tied up the Chinese manufacturing for themselves. The News Flash is CMT’s response to the situation. They are going to manufacture their own products.
We should applaud CMT and hope for their success. Who knows, maybe one day CMT will be the supplier for other brands and we will find our models made in Canada (or wherever CMT builds its factory).
Tim
Everything from Bowser is made in China now, even the Cal-Scale parts, I just received another RS-32/36 detail set made in China and the price jumped from 14.95 to 19.95.
Botchmann is still Botchmann! [tdn]
Stop calling Athearn, Atlas, Bowser , Walthers and others manufacturer’s they are importers and most of the time due to the new order policies they don’t even have anything in their warehouses (if they even have one). Accurail is a manufacturer they make everything here in the USA.
Most of ExactRail and Intermountain’s stuff is molded in the USA and shipped to China for assembly.
Rick J [2c]
If it were just the assembly line or the injection molding machinery, moving production back would be fairly easy. Chinese business practice and loss of the supporting infrastructure in the US make the reality of moving production back to the US very difficult.
Notice that the letter addressed that model train manufacturing - especially locomotives - is a complex undertaking. The original reason for production moving overseas was the cost of cutting dies. The difference in assembly costs alone didn’t push production out. But a difference in die costs of $20+ per locomotive on a run of 5,000 units is significant. Then add the sourcing of supporting parts that have to be ordered - motors, gears, shafts, flywheels, wheels, and so on. These are generally not produced in the US anymore, either - especially in numbers that are not large scale production but beyond basement manufacturing.
Getting paint masks made and spearately applied metal or plastic detail partes is another infrastructure issue. I know the basement manufacturers here in the US struggle to locate sources of supply for trucks, detail castings, and decals for their kits (not every basement manufacturer wants to produce his own AB brake system or windows or trucks)
Bottom line is that returning production to the US involves reviving a whole infrastructure of specialty suppliers who can produce economically in the desired quantities - not just opening an assembly factory.
just my thoughts
Fred W
I was suggesting Bowser Kits, in which case their website clearly states they are made in the USA! If this is a false statement on Bowser’s part, I have no way of knowing and until someone proves otherwise, I will take Bowser’s word for it.
I’m curious about the math. If, in fact, there is only one “A” factory and it’s 10 x larger than the three “B” factories, does this mean that Bachmann is going to use all of the capacity of the sole “A” factory?
It also seems odd to me that in the manufacturing capacity of China there is only one “A” size factory.
[quote user=“tpatrick”]
superbe:
Bob, I am the OP. CMT (Canadian Model Trains) did not receive the email. They wrote it. They sent it to me and I posted it here for you.
The CMT News Flash should not confuse you.Their email laid out the problem: a competitor has tied up the Chinese manufacturing for themselves. The News Flash is CMT’s response to the situation. They are going to manufacture their own products.
We should applaud CMT and hope for their success. Who knows, maybe one day CMT will be the supplier for other brands and we will find our models made in Canada (or wherever CMT builds its factory).
Tim
tpatrick,
I’m have a hard time believing that Bachmann was able to tie up all of the production capabilities in China and has a monopoly on new train production.
No disrespect to CMT but I’d be more impressed if this information came from the likes of Walthers, Horizon, and Model Train Stuff. In fact if this is true I would have expected for MR Magazine to have commented.
I hope CMT can get a production facility up and running. It would be good for model railroading and I wish them all the luck they can get.
Bob
If you pull together all the information out there, the picture becomes a little clearer. CMT was avoiding naming names in the e-mail. Bachmann is owned by Kader, which also owns the largest mr manufacturing plant in China. Sanda Kan (spelling?) was the second biggest manufacturer, and was the contract shop for many of the bigger importers. Sanda Kan over-committed their facilities, causing many delivery delays, and had other problems. Sanda Kan was bought by Kader. Kader sent letters to many importers - not all, but most of the smaller ones - that had been using Sanda Kan telling them to find another source for their production. And so the scramble for production facilities and supplier infrastructure has been on for the past year or two.
So Bachmann has a lock for Chinese production time. Blackstone/Soundtraxx appears to be pretty high on the list for Kader facilities due to being the supplier of Tsunami decoders, as well as buying Blackstone production. Being in HOn3 with little competition, Blackstone can get and pay higher prices. Atlas is trying to set up alternatives to Kader, as witnessed by their track production issues earlier this year.
Like it or not, it takes experience and practice to get model locomotive production up to reasonable quality standards (cracked gears, over-oiled models, anyone?). Model train production is not generally first on the list of investors looking for decent returns - it’s not kno
Bachmann purchased the factory well over 2 years ago.
But don’t blame Bachmann for the shortage. You don’t buy a large factory and then idle a very large percentage of it. That cost you way too much money.
I heard what the real problem is, and it’s not really Bachmann’s fault. I would say more, but it’s 2nd hand hearsay from an insider and that would irresponsible for me to repeat it as it could affect the company’s business.
Oh, nice DG. Just leave us hanging. LOL [(-D]
There you go…
This proves how important that the US has become to other countries in the world…
We go down, and the others will follow…
This also proves that making, say, a brass 2-8-8-4 yellowstone decorated for the DM&IR with sound, is much harder than making, say, a Nintendo 3DS (which is still hard to do)…
Yet, it also proves that the dealers are merely taking the brunt of our anger, not the manufacturers, who don’t need it as well…
I feel the same way. I think my locomotive fleet is as big as it’s ever going to get.
Yes Rich, We the USA, have taught these manufactures how to design and build by out sourcing to them. It seems like everyone wants cheap prices. Being a retired Union Man who was paid a fair wage to support my family for forty two years I appreciate well made goods and I also want it made in the good ol USA or Canada and probably the UK. That is the way it was along time past. If we keep going our population won’t know how to manufacture let alone design anything. I’ll pay more for good quality American manufactured goods. I remember when my folks sent a Frigidare to the junk heap to be dismantled for parts and metal after it had served its purpose for over 40 years. That is what we in America used to build and can again if we get with it. We, the USA can do this if we get serious about what is going on. We don’t need anymore trade imbalance with china. We just don’t!!! Doug
I feel like doing a “Buy a Bachmann, chuck a Bachmann”, despite having a 44-tonner from them.
Hmmm. I just finished reading a bunch of deleted posts, one of which was very informative, a couple were a little silly and the rest were rather innocuous. I saw nothing inflammatory or especially controversial, so I’m wondering why they were thought to be veering toward a “political” discussion.
As a moderator on another forum, I have no issues with the moderators here doing their job, but the preemptive strike seemed to suppose a lack of self-control among the Members engaged in this discussion.
In my opinion, it would have been preferable (although not my choice) to leave the one informative post, then lock the thread. That information, along with the information in the original post, explained much of the problems occurring within the industry. Whether or not we agree on a solution, we at least no longer need to speculate on the problem as it applies to our very narrow interests
Wayne.
Jason from Rapido made what, imho, was an outstanding post that hit on target. I was looking for it and wondered what happened. It was not controversial nor inappropriate, but well thought out and professional. Very disappointed to see it zapped.
Jason (Rapido) and Blain (Exactrail) explained the situation in detail when I interviewed them for podcasts several months ago. They are fortunate in that their production is with suppliers other than the one which impacted Athearn RTR, Atlas, etc. Their’s is also more of a partnership than a mere customer relationship.
Listen to Jason’s answers to my queries about bringing the manufacturing back to North America. While there is truth in a previous post about the who and what drove the manufacturing overseas, we consumers also played a large part in our pursuit of lower retail prices.
None of these influences are bad in and of themselves; they just had unintended consequences.
I agree. I find it disappointing that it was somehow found necessary to delete that post. It directly answers and addresses questions/speculations.
A manufacturer provided insight into the issues that has many of us concerned and instead of allowing it to remain it was decided that modelers are “best left in the dark”, deleting the post and paving the way for more speculation, conspiracy theories and baseless insinuations.
Although a small issue on the radar, I urge Rapido to continue participating with the end users and occasionally providing continued insight into how the business works.
I’d like to say more but I’d hate to provide another reason to have additional posts removed (I probably said to much already)
Hey, what’s going on here???
The post from Rapido (Jason) was probably one of the most valuable and truly informative posts I’ve seen on the subject. And now it - and several responses referencing it - are gone (including mine).
I’ve been on this forum for a long, long time, and this is the first time I feel the “deleters” jumped the gun.
Neither the subject nor the responses were - imho - out of line, and in fact were more productive than not.
If there was a problem in the eyes of those with the forum power, then explain it to us and lock the thread.
Deleting posts is just downright wrong!