Reading Mth’s ad in CTT, it states it can run conventional locos without additional equipment, does that mean I can use the DCS to run an older steamer or deisel from the 50s,60s or 70s just as they are? I’m presently using a old ZW transformer for my power supply.
I run command only on my layout. To answer your question. Yes you can. The TIU which features 4 output channels has 2 which are variable. Basically you are putting a fixed voltage into the TIU from your transformer and controlling the voltage coming out through the channel with your remote. I’ve heard various opinions on how well this works. If you do have Proto 2 engines with DCS as well as some conventional locos. It will run everything. Even TMCC with a Lionel base.
Not knowing what configuration your layout is. Many prefer to have both seperate command and conventional loops. You can change the 2 variable channels to fixed easily with the remote. This works well if you remove conventional motive power and want to change the channels function to run command. Mine are all set as fixed. If there is an occasion that a conventional engine is run. I simply leave everything as is on the DCS portion and just vary the voltage by turning the knobs on my power supply. Basically though you are limited to just 2 channels that can control conventional tracks with the remote.
As far as wiring those loops. If intended for conventional use only. You needn’t worry about the track signal or doing any fancy wiring. You will be limited to about 12 amps. Older power hungry engines as well as a number of older lighted passenger cars may come close to the TIU’s rated output. The only issue you should have is the communication between the handheld and the TIU. I learned a while back it’s best to place the TIU as high as the layout in a good location thats inline most of the time with your remote. If you already have some Proto 2 engines and still want to run your conventional stuff. This seems the way to go.
When I started “Command” I had DCS. I found that it was horrible to run conventional [my opinion]. It “ramped” up when running in variable so bad, engine would be sitting still and then suddenly flying around the track. No “feel” of the throttle. I left my TIU in fixed and operated them with my ZW’s [Post War] handle. Also, DCS seemed not to blow the whistles of Post War engines well. I later added TMCC. With the advice of Roy M, I added a TPC [then another one so I had one for each mainline]. What a difference. TMCC will run conventionals so much better and blows Post War whistles better than the rectifiers in a Post War ZW. You can use the brake and boost buttons on a CAB1 to feather the speed. I now run mine with the Legacy. I just select the Track 1 and Track2 in CAB1 mode and run them that way. Good luck.
Chief,
I seem to remember asking this question a few months back, but got no replies. So, I thought I would try again on this thread.
What happens when running an engine in DCS mode from a DCS dedicated track/loop to a conventionally controlled track/loop? And, what happens when running a conventional engine from a conventionally controlled track to a DCS one? Does it all go up in smoke? Or, wishful thinking, do they move thru seamlessly?
I have two outer loops controlled by a Z-4000 and TIU and an inner loop plus a dozen or so side tracks controlled by a post war ZW. All track areas are connected, with insulated blocks separating them. I do have track and controller protection via various electronic gadgets obtained from Scot’s Odds n Ends, but I’m still uneasy about trying the “crossovers” until I get some advice/experience on this.
Regards,
Bill
The DCS signal should be propogated throughout the layout (aka on all four outputs). I would check the signal strength to make sure you are getting a good signal.
You should never let a non command loco wander into a command controlled block whether you are using DCS or TMCC. The conventional loco will see the constant voltage and take off at warp speed. Command control loco’s are designed to work at constant high track voltage. They will only do something when the see/hear digital commands directed at their specific address. When you use the variable channel on a TIU or a variable output device like a TPC or PowerMaster (Lionel’s system) you are just using remote throttle capability built into these systems. You are raising and lowering track voltages and sending DC offsets to trigger features. These engines do not see/hear the command signal and will repsond the the increased track voltage by trying to accelerate off the layout.
Chuck,
I am getting a good signal to the two loops I have hooked up via the TIU. The remaining tracks on my layout are conventionally controlled by a ZW. My original intention was to run two DCS engines on each of the outer loops while running a post war engine in the inner loop. Someone on this forum said the Z-4000 might be stretched a bit to use it for the entire layout. I have the Z-4000 hooked up so that each of the two controllers operates a loop.
Now, If I understand you correctly, one just cannot mix command operated systems with conventional. Somehow, I thought I read that this could be done. My real disappointment will be not being able to park my DCS equipment on side tracks and in the roundhouse. Also, I wanted to be able to run an engine from the outer loop to the second loop and into the inner loop and return. All the loops, though insulated, are connected via switches.
Bill
You should be able to move command loco’s through conventional blocks, not the other way around. With appropriate quick blow fuses the ZW could be used to provide power to the viariable inputs on your TIU. You would need to set the ZW throttles to the max voltage you want to control but you should then be able to control the voltage to the track remotely via the TIU. You can test this by using a single command loco in the comand block and an illuminated car in the variable block. As you raise power in the variable block, the car’s light should glow. When the voltage in the variable block is close to the voltage in the command block you can address the command loco and try moving it into the conventional block. If everything goes well, the command engine will continue on its merry way. Keep your had ready to kill power if things don’t go well (DCS signal is sometimes peculiar in it’s propgation) and make sure you have quick blow fuses on the ZW out puts and that ALL of the power supplies are in phase and polarities (hot versus nuetral are observed).
I see no problem running your DCS engines over your inner loops. Nor using a ZW as a power supply. There are a few ways you can do this. You can use the variable channels on your TIU and control your inner loops using the DCS remote. You can set your 2 variable channels to fixed ones. When running conventionally with your older engines. They are simply controlled by the handles on your ZW. I’m guessing this is how you are presently doing it. When you run your DCS engines in this area. Just make sure there is enough voltage dialed in at your ZW to run your engine. 16v to 18v should be fine. I’d also not run more than 10 or 12 amps through each channel. When running your DCS engine from the outer to inner it should progress seamlessly provided the Z4000 and ZW are in phase. I’m guessing theres no compatibility problem there.
You can also just use the TIU to broadcast the DCS signal to your inner loops. You can do this with a good quality speaker or signal wire. You can leave your present wiring setup in place. You will not be putting any power into the input side of your TIU from the ZW. You will need Fixed One powered at all times or better yet an Auxillary transformer to constantly power the TIU. You will still need to supply a fixed voltage from your ZW at all times when running your DCS engine. The voltage from your ZW and the DCS signal need not be in the same wire. Your simply broadcasting the DCS signal seperately. This will allow you to run at higher than 12 amps if needed for your postwar trains. You are bypassing the TIU as far as volts and amps. You are using it to just supply the signal.
I recommended using some sort of fast trip breaker or fuse setup if running an older ZW. Also toggles on every siding. While you can shut down a DCS engine in command. Each time you power down the ZW the engine will probably miss the watchdog signal and fire up in conventional mode. Chances are each time you flip the toggle even with your ZW po
Dave,
Thanks for the detailed info. That will keep me busy for some time as I try to absorb the data and then implement it. I do have one of those remote commanders and have used it to operate a post war engine on the DCS tracks. It has worked quite well so far.
Regards
Bill