Thanks, Jack! I look forward to hearing from you and seeing Jim’s video.
I’m trying to contact JimT (green97probe) asking if he would read your thread “My Father’s Lionel 2020” and weigh in on your master plan. In the meantime, read his thread “1946 Lionel 2020” and find his post where he provides a link to his youtube video running his finished product. Will knock you over!
Jack
PhillyDuke,
I just got Jack’s message, and I have looked at the pics you’ve posted. As for cosmetics, I’d leave her exactly as she is now. The paint has less than average wear, and the only thing that really needs attention is the smoke unit. If it was really bad, then I’d say restore it, but it looks great just the way it is. Also, restored pieces, no matter how well done, just don’t have the same character that they had originally IMHO. The spots on the boiler, as well as the corroded smoke unit, are the result of the ammonium nitrate pellets that these early units used. Ammonium nitrate is not stable, and it will eat metal when it is in the liquid state.
These engines are very easy to service, and I’d suggest that you do it youself instead of taking it to someone. It will be much cheaper, quicker, and a great learning experience to do it yourself. Plus, you’d know that the job was done right. I’d be more than happy to walk you through it online or over the phone.
As Jim states, it’s a 1946 turbine, with it’s original smoke bulb unit. Starting in 1947, Lionel offered a kit to convert those units to the nichrome wire heater type unit. (Those kits were available as late as 1969).
Original smoke bulbs are available, but are generally way overpriced.
Good reproductions have been made, and are reasonably priced.
Be aware that with a smoke bulb, the engine will smoke poorly, or not at all.
The bulb just does not get hot enough for the modern smoke materials.
The original smoke material has not been available in years, because it’s nasty stuff.
IMHO, the engine is not bad enough to repaint, nor would I convert the smoke unit.
Doing either would ruin it’s character / uniqueness. .
But it’s your train, do whatever makes you happy!
Jim,
Thanks so much for taking a look. I’m somewhat torn as to whether to leave things as-is or take a crack at restoring it to it’s former glory. That said, I’m still going to drop by Nicholas Smith on my lunch today and see if it at least runs (I have no layout set up right now), and pick up some supplies to maintain it.
I’d love to touch base with you and pick your brain on how best to clean this up and service it. I may feel differently about doing a complete cosmetic overhaul once the corrosion and spots are off the boiler and smoke/headlight unit. The tender could use some TLC as well. Feel free to PM me and we can either pick this up there or I’ll give you my offline contact info. Depending on where in PA you are we might even be able to meet up in person.
Philly,
I’ll send you a PM.
W
I am curious as to what transformer you found with the engine (if any). Back then, I had types “R”, “N” and “B”, plus a prewar model that would give me a shock whenever I touched it. (It is gone now).
I’d love to! Anyone know where I can acquire the replacement part? It’s pretty much beyond cleaning at this point. I don’t want to necessarily get the smoke running again (at least not in its original form), but the holes in the metal concern me some. I’m hesitant to replace it with one of the '47-'49 smoke units, as I was informed that this involves tapping and drilling, making the modification irreversible. I would, however, be interested in what Jim did with his 2020 if he’s able to find a way to get the headlight working again.
Unfortunately I don’t remember if there was one, or what it was if there was. It’s been many years since we divided up my father’s toys.
Just as an update, it’s been determined that the majority of the white spotting on both the boiler and the tender are mildew and not ammonium nitrate corrosion. Anyone know of a safe way to remove the mildew w/o removing the paint?
PhillyDuke…….your pictures really turned out great in lighting, angles, and detail. I also agree with the responses you got. I’d get it back to operationally sound and put a little TLC into cleaning it up. Then run it while you are backfilling the original set.
To me, the beauty of an heirloom piece isn’t in its perfection but is actually in its imperfections. As I wrote to you, each cosmetic item which may drive some guys wild has a story behind it, a personal one for you. Once restored or touched up, you can’t unrestore it or or remove the touch ups. CW said it well: the beauty is in the unvarnished originality. With the shell off…… the insides appear to be remarkably clean and well preserved except for the smoke bulb unit. If you had the opportunity so see other 64 year old 2020 shells that are out there for sale, here is what you might observe about your own unit. It’s dirty, but had Dad removed the smoke pellet residue periodically and/or be
Regarding replacement parts, there are a ton of sources, but here are a couple to start with. When you do a search on each website under the replacemtnt parts option, type 2020 and you should get a whole list of what parts they have in stock.
http://www.brasseurelectrictrains.com/service/lionel/1600to2100.asp
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/
Jack
OK, any suggestions for cleaning the tender and boiler shell of the mildew? I spoke with Jim and he suggested dishwashing liquid, water, and a small paintbrush…perhaps some armor all if it was needed. Other ideas if that doesn’t work?
I agree with Jim… Go very light with the amount of dishwashing detergent and luke warm with the water. Don’t soak the shell too long or you may lose paint. I used cotton Q-tips on the nooks and crannies…
If you are dissatisfied with the first pass at washing the shell, repeat.
Armor all for car interiors, exterior trim, or tires? This product is silicone based and should bring the shine up but tends to leave a greasy residue. You can get them in disposable wipes. So go light on that on the application and then wipe with a soft cotton t-shirt.
Jack
Just an update for those following along. I took the 2020 and tender to my LHS today and paid a modest 1 hr. labor fee for them to properly lube it and make sure it was in good running order. The tech and store owner were shocked at how well it seemed to run…the bulb still shone and even smoked when a little fluid was added! We placed it on the layout in the middle of the store (I don’t currently have one set up at home) that is connected to a modern ZW transformer and had it pull a NYC Flyer passenger consist around the track a few times. Ran great…with one catch: the tender wouldn’t stop whistling. The repairman (who shall from here on out be referred to as “Bob”…because that’s his name) tinkered with it for awhile, then placed it back on the loop and couldn’t get it to whistle at all. As soon as he took it back to his workshop-nook and placed it on his bench connected to a post-war KW, it worked just fine and whistled on demand. He thinks that the less sophisticated mechanisms might not like the electronically controlled transformers and suggested I get a used post-war variety. Anyone ever come across this?
The other issue we encountered is that the engine won’t run in reverse. Seems to bind up as soon as it tries to roll backwards. Bob thought it was the cam on the front drive wheel that triggers the smoke flapper catching on something when it goes in reverse, but that didn’t seem to be the case. As it was getting close to shop closing, I decided to take the set home and work on the cleanup. Bob suggested some penetrating oil to remove the mildew from the shell, but it didn’t seem to work very well on the plastic of the tender when he showed me how to apply it. I’ll take it slowly when I begin the cleanup as to not remove any paint that I can avoid removing, but it was really great seeing it run around a loop today with very few difficulties. The front trucks looked a little loose as it took the curves, but I guess they needed to have a lot of side-to-side leeway in order to negotiate O-27 trac
I have used WD-40 to remove mildew from leather upholstery in cars. It might work for you.
I assume you set the E unit upright before you ran the train?
One way to find out where things are binding is to try to turn the drive wheels and back drive the motor. If the engine is binding in one direction, you will not be able to turn the drive wheels in the OPPOSITE direction. I believe the loco has a worm shaft driving the wheels. If one of the thrust bearings for this shaft is not lubed or is missing, you will not be able to turn the wheels in one direction.
Bruce Baker
That is a nice looking locomotive. I agree with the others - get it tuned up and running before deciding what else you want to do with it.
If you think you might repaint in the future, don’t use products with silicone in them on it. The silicone will give you fits with the paint.
No. My Postwar ZW doesn’t have a Bell button. To test bells, I had to use the 1033, also a “real” transformer, but was made with the horn diode in backwards. When I added a “TMCC” Powermaster (71-28867-250) and CAB1 remote, both bells and whistles work. That setup is a lot less sophisticated than the newer electronic controlers, and works great with Postwar engines. The name TMCC is very confusing to me. It is used to describe this unsophisticated setup, AND the system by the same name which does lots more IF you buy a "TMCC equipped engine, and leave the track voltage set at ~18vac continuously. (Light bulbs hate that).
As for the cleaning, I have heard of several methods. Dawn dish soap is suggested with a tooth brush and warm water…do NOT use over decals/numbers. Also, some have used lighter fluid. Check on a small area out of the way first.
Dennis
Because I run strictly “conventional” I don’t ordinarily respond to any post that discusses TMCC or any of the other modern systems or devices, but I may be able to clear up a couple of things.
The post-war ZW and the 1033 are both “real transformers,” to use lionelsoni’s terms, but they are wired/labeled differently. On the ZW, the A terminal should normally be connected to the center rail, and U to the outer one. With the 1033, the U terminal should normally be connected to the center rail, and the A terminal to an outer rail. But at the beginners’ level it really doesn’t matter. The whistle/horn should work no matter how you hook it up. There were no operating bells in those days.
With the advent of locos that have BOTH horn/whistles AND bells, the polarity (which wire you connect to the center rail) DOES make a difference. If you do it the above way you should get whistle or horn, if you do it the opposite way you will get bell. To get both (one or the other at a time, generally) you need to add something like a Lionel Sound Activation Button, 6-5906
The best way I found out of getting mildew of i wipe it with a damp cotten cloth like a old t-shirt. Them I would just get black shoe polish (the paste kind) and use that on it. It would cover up small blemishes, and it seems to keep any more mildew from formng. I have used the polish on most of my cast engines.