My layout is depressing... (Rant)

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

For a while now I’ve been starting to get out of model railroading; my layout is starting to frustrate me again… I went downstairs to run a train, and even though I hadn’t run my locomotive since I cleaned the wheels two days ago, it ran horribly. It wouldn’t go even an inch without stopping dead. I cleaned some track and it ran a little better, managing 3 inches before it stopped. I gave up…

Being someone who enjoys operation, having a layout that won’t run (and frustrates me, not to mention my guest operators at my operating sessions (Many of which weren’t that much fun because of the dirty track and derailments) isn’t all that much fun.

I also enjoy scenery, but building a layout just for the scenery isn’t that much fun either… Plus some of my scenery areas I’m not happy with (like the yard…) and redoing them would be way overbudget for me, and some scenery areas I’ve lost the will to finish, such as the mountain pass, because I just never make any progress and I don’t have enough trees anyway.

I’m just getting increasingly frustrated with my layout, because it seems like it never does what I want it to do, it only runs badly and makes me regret decisions that I’ve made in the past that are now out of my control to fix.

I’m starting to consider starting over, except that would mean scrapping several hundred dollars worth of scenery and what track I can’t salvage, not to mention the benchwork which my dad estimated is about $800, because of its all 2-by-4 construction, the hardwood backdrop, and the 2" foam sheets used to build it. For someone with an average monthly income of about $30, that’s a whole lot of money… Goodbye years worth of saving…

Sorry about the rant, I’m just really disgusted with my layout and myself for all the mistakes I’ve made building it. I wish I could just start over with a full rebate for my construction materials…

I think what I need is to attend an op

2

There are times I’ve been similarly frustrated. What worked for me was to clean the wheels and do whatever else to get ONE loco running right, then get 3 feet of track working PERFECTLY. This is when you have to become really obsessive about perfection, but just do 3 feet. Then do another 3 feet, then another, and so on. Don’t think of fixing the whole thing, just do bite sized chunks. Pay particular attention to track joints (no gaps or kinks). Also look for balast stuck to the inner sides of the rails - often a hidden problem. Hardware stores sell tools that look like toothbrushes with brass wire bristles, these are great for getting ballast under control.

By the way, a great fist step to all of it is to vacuum clean the entire layout. It just helps to get the loose stuff and dust off.

Regarding derailments, once the track is right, keep track of which cars derail and where. If it is random cars at a certain location, you have a track issue. If it is just certain cars, check them out with that same obsessive attitude. Be sure they are weighted and gauged correctly. If you have one that you just cant figure out, PM me and I’ll tell you about an occasional hard to find problem.

The key is to do just enough that you can deal with it financially and emotionally, and to have a reliable method. If you don’t have one already, you’ll need an NMRA gauge to check wheels, track, and coupler height. About 5 bucks at the hobby store.

Hang in there, you’ll get it right.

3

Well, the only thing I can say constructively is that we’ve probably all been there.

You should really spend some time figuring out exactly what is wrong, and fix it permanently, and this will be a valuable lesson in what needs to be done each and every time you add to your layout.

If you have to redo some of it to make it operate reliably, so be it, you’ll be happier in the end. It’s obviously a track/wiring problem. A layout that won’t run is a large, very expensive diorama, and not really something any of us are aiming for, I’m sure.

When I built my first attempt at a switching layout, I used a set of feeders for each and every section of flextrack and every turnout. It worked very well, especially for a first attempt at real tracklaying.

Keep the railhead meticulously clean, perhaps check out the ‘gleaming’ technique for track cleaning.

Best of luck!

4

Ty, Now, before starting over…take a break from it for a while (a day or two). Walking away in situations like yours (and many of us here also) gives you a chance to relax about the situation and think more clearly. [8)]

Your feeling is completely understandable. However, you sound like me in the past: Impatient when trouble kicks in.

Believe me, I’ve gotten frustrated many a time when painting, building or kit, or when I was learning about DCC. Once I slowed down, started thinking calmly, and worked slowly… everything almost always started fitting into place and was no longer hopeless! [;)][tup]

BTW: Would be helpful if you could provide photos for us to see.

  1. Trackwork: Did you install feeder wires between your track sections. It’s a hassle but it is worth it. Even on a small shelf layout like I had years back, soldering feeders makes a big difference!

  2. Cleaning: You must have read this thread on track cleaning. Give it a shot if you haven’t tried it yet.

http://cs.trains.com/forums/1500858/ShowPost.aspx

Always, after building a layout test it throughly and work out the bugs BEFORE having a guest engineer come over for operating sessions.

  1. You already know to make certain that your locomotives wheels are clean and that electrical pickups are making good contact.

Don’t scrap your layout. Do what the prototypes do and fix or modify as needed [;)]

5

Without seeing the size of your layout, my suggestion is to set up a list of 5 things you want to do. Make them simple tasks that you can do in a couple hours. Then work on each task. I have a list like that for my layout, it has over 120 tasks on it. So i just go down the list, pick out a task, finish it and cross it off the list.

Probably the most important is getting the railroad operating reliably. Start at one end and work each track, portion by portion, over, bullet proofing it. make sure the track is smooth and level, no kinks, make sure there is good electrical feeds to the rails.

Then divide your layout up into “scenes” of a couple square feet each and concentrate on scenicing that scene. It might be helpful to organize or prioritize the scenes a little. If you do the one in the front of the layout it might make the ones in the back hard to reach.

The idea is to break the layout down into smaller pieces and finish each piece Don’t do “the yard”. Do the main track. then do the lead. then do the caboose track. Then do the recieving tracks, then the class tracks, then the service tracks.

Worst case scenario. Rip it all out and start over. I just did that and I have done more modeling in the last month than I had in the previous year. New vision, new energy.

Dave H.

6

Hey, I know the feeling–I think we ALL know the feeling. I go through it every now and then, walk out to my garage Empire, fire up a loco and it just sits there and stares at me. Time to check everything out. Frankly, sometimes Model Railroading is a lot like smoking a pipe–you spend far more time fiddling with the equipment than you ever do USING it.

Sometimes it’s best to just say “I’ll think about it TOMORROW” and wait until the frustration passes and you’re in a better mood to deal with everything. Then go out and work a little at a time, but work THOROUGHLY. Three feet at a time, if you have to. Find the bugs, elminate them, go to the next section, repeat. Lord knows I’ve done it enough times, myself.

Right now, I’m recuperating from knee surgery, so I know that when I’m able to hobble out to the garage and begin work again–in about 3-4 weeks, I’m going to have a REAL project ahead of me–cleaning track, checking electrical contacts, cleaning loco wheels–the whole bit. I’m not looking forward to it, but it’s something that’s going to have to be done. In the meantime, I’ve got kitchen table projects to keep me from going completely Bonkers.

Dissatisfied with the scenery? That’s the easiest thing in the world to cure. I got dissatisfied with a MAJOR piece of scenery this Spring–a 6 foot long, 6’ high mountain. All I had to do was lay some new scenery over what I didn’t like and–VOILA! Tons of improvement. Got the scenery all laid down and you need additional feeders? Not that big a hassle with a 1/8" drill into the ballast right next to the rail. A little time under the layout and it’s solved, pretty much.

There’s ALWAYS something to do or fix on the layout. Frankly, if mine ran perfectly, I probably wouldn’t know what to DO with it, LOL!

Don’t get dis

7

I think one of your own suggestions is the best approach for right now …

Concentrate on getting your engines themselves running well and take them to other layouts to enjoy operating sessions and running your trains … maybe even join a local club if there’s one near you. Nothing gets the creative juices flowing again like getting involved with others doing the same thing. You’ll find that in rather short order, you’ll have a renewed interest and drive to tackle your own issues and start moving forward again.

As has already been said, we’ve all been there, done that !!!

Mark.

8

I went through the same kind of thing back when I was using steel track. It seemed like no matter how much I cleaned it, it was ALWAYS dirty. My locos wouldn’t run on it for anything while they ran great on other layouts. I started looking at what those people were doing and did what they did, kinda like when in Rome do as the Romans do. I ended up ripping up all my track and replacing it with nickel silver track, which at that time Atlas was my only source for the stuff. I also got turned on to Athearn locomotives at that time and got away from the Bachmann and Model Power stuff I had been using. I learned that a brass bristle brush wouldn’t harm the loco wheels as long as I didn’t go in with the heave ho routine. Electrifying two brushes on a stand turned out to be a good idea as I could just turn up the power pack connected to the brushes and place the loco on them. In this way I could perform maintenance on the motor and clean the wheels at the same time. It took me nearly a year to rebuild my layout but I never once thought about giving up on it. That was in 1981. Since then I’ve used NS track almost exclusively, though I did build another layout with steel track. I ended up ripping all that out too. That’s when I discovered the NS Bachmann EZ-Track I’m using now. I wouldn’t call it better than Atlas NS track but it’s much easier for me to work with and I don’t have to put down separate roadbed. Learning from others and taking the time to study what they did made the hobby much more enjoyable for me. And just because you can get expensive equipment doesn’t mean it’s any better quality than some of the cheaper stuff out there. I have locomotives that cost well over a hundred dollars that just sit on the shelf because that’s all they’re good for. My collection of Athearn BB units run better and NONE of them cost over forty dollars, most of them I got for less than thirty. I got most of my F7’s for ten to fifteen dollars each. That was new and still in the

9

There is some very sensible advice presented here. I really like the idea of starting a journey of 1000 miles with the first step, and then another… Take one engine, and if possible, set up some spare track and power it. Will that engine run? No? Then you now know where to start. It may not be your tracks at all!

Engine runs quite well? Then your engines are probably okay, but your track needs some rethinking in terms of power. It isn’t that your tracks are dirty…how can they become so entirely resistant to electricity in 48 hours unless you have faulty metallurgy at work for you…an awful batch of track…somehow.

If you could to some testing of your tracks. Try a multimeter, and do voltage tests here and there. Or, press down on joiners near and around your feeder wires/connection and also the loco using a wooden dowel or skewer. If the loco jumps to life you know your feeders have become corroded against the rails and no longer afford connectivity. You can solder them, solder feeders, slide the joiners back and forth to displace some corrosion…all of the above.

I feel the answer is probably very simple, but you need to step back, take a breath, shake your head to clear it of the vicious circles of thought you have had in there, and take a more methodical approach to solving your problems. It is highly unlikely that they are insurmountable to the point where your only recourse is to take a pair of pliers and rip up all your expensive trackwork.

10

Thanks guys. Your suggestions have helped a lot.

Right now I’m in the middle of trying to take a break by planning a 10 mile bike ride to Westborough, MA to railfan the CSX Boston & Albany line, although I don’t think I’ll get to it today.

My track is mostly derailment free except for a few areas like turnouts, this issue is annoying, but not as bad as the dirty track issue. My track is all soldered joints with feeders every 10 feet or so, which isn’t great but is a lot better than just one feeder. I guess I’ll work on those once I finalize my track plan for the last section of unsoldered track (just industry trackwork, not the mainline).

The only reason I really invite guest operators over is because I like spending time with them and most of them either don’t have a layout fit for two-person operation. I guess I’ll stick to railfanning with my friends…

I definetely am going to try to find somewhere else to run, although I don’t know if a club is the right approach. I was in a club once for a few months, and the dues were too high for 3 meetings a month, one of which was (supposed to be) an operating session, and the other two were work sessions where you couldn’t run trains except for in the first half-hour (which I always missed because of dinner).

My locos run fine on other layouts, they’re not the issue. They’re a mix of Atlas and Bachmann Spectrum, with a few Bachmann DCC-On Board locos which run like how much they cost, I don’t expect much more from them. Unfortunetely, one of my best locos is sidelined with some sort of electrical problem…

I wonder if there’s any operating layouts that need operators around here, I know of a few but I have no idea how to contact the owners or even if they’re interested in another operator.

Most scenery is easy to repair, but the main feature I don’t like is the yard, which I built with mainline-style roadbed before I knew better; repair would mean ripp

11

Next week at the club we are moving the stuff out of the old location. If there is any suitable track I could probably pick it up. If I were you I’d save up for the next few months+x-mas/birthday to get all new track, and all metal wheelsets. You might even want to try a small layout in the meantime, such as a 2x4ft N scale layout.

12

I have been there too. They hit me about once every couple of months or so.

On track cleaning: I think that sometimes track can be too clean. And dry. Here is what I do. When I clean my track with a bright-boy, I find that it leaves behind some very fine particles and grit that can get on your newly cleaned wheels. This is undesirable. So I just wipe the rails with my finger after using a bright-boy to get the grit off. I clean my loco wheels on a paper towel wetted with alcohol and laid across the track, running one truck, then the other on the paper towel. Now, in both case of wheel cleaning and track cleaning, the metal parts dry out causing not so good contact. (Seems weird doesn’t it?) So my next step is to lubricate the rails. When I first started trying this, I used WD-40. Spray a little on your finger and wipe it on the rails in about a foot long section. Then put a locomotive on it and run it through it. The loco wheels should pick it up and spread it around the layout. I was really surprised how well my layout ran after that. So this is standard track cleaning for me now.

Have you oiled your loco lately? Dry wheel contacts can also cause a problem. A drop of WD-40 on the backs of each wheel and near/on the axle will help that. (Spray a small amount of WD in the plastic cap, then pick some up with a toothpic or bit of plastic and apply it.)

As to so many things to do, I make lists. I have a list going all the time for each of the areas that I am working on. Just write it all down, then decide in what order the things need to be done. Break the projects down into small parts. One project per list. You can put the things on you list in priority, what needs to be done first, then second, etc. Some things need attention first to make you happy, so do them first. When you go to your layout looking for something to do, pick an area, check the list and do ONE item on the list. Next thing you know you will be doing the next thing too.

Even when you

13

Ditto to what everyone said about taking a step back. I’ve had those moments where I get so pis*ed off at the layout, I gotta just leave it alone for a day or week. My question: Why not rip up the WRS if you’re so ticked at it, and build a smaller layout? There’s gotta be some salvagable wood from the benchwork. You’re 13, like me, right? plenty of time left before college, lol. just make a smaller layout that you can expand on when you get to the point where it’s “done” (like running w/ basic scenery). just my two cents.

14

Maybe I will try that WD-40 trick. Sounds easy enough, and much cheaper than starting over or replacing all the track.

I don’t think I’ll start over, but I am looking into clubs to join. No information about actual operating layout though… (By operating I mean operating sessions, one of my main reasons that I run the layout.)

15

Don’t you hate the choices you’ve made previously in life? Your trackage hasn’t been replaced since you laid it 5 years ago. 5 Years is a long time, and track with minimal maintenance ends up like Guilford [:)]. Metal wheels really are a must, since your rolling stock with plastic wheels just picks up and spreads your dirt around the layout, after cleaning your loco wheels and track. I have to say, it might be worth it to rip up your mainline and replace it with Atlas Code 83, at the same time redoing your yard layout. Redoing your mainline with a wider radii, and flextrack with fewer joints will reduce derailments. You can sell the old Code 100, or keep it around to replace troubly sidings.

16

Well Alex, I might just take your advice and redo it with Code 83. It would give me something to spend my time on![:-^] Where’s the best place to buy cheap Code 83 track?

17

MB Klein is great. Maine Trains sells it too.

18

I think I’ve come up with a solution to my main problem with starting from scratch: The unsalvageable sections of the layout, namely the 2" foam layout surface and the senery materials.

Please note that I am aware of the advertising rules of this site, therefore I am not going to disclose the site I will be using to sell things on if I go with this plan. (I’m not even sure myself about how I’ll sell said items just yet). I am just posting this idea here to get feedback on whether it might work or not.

On second thought, the said items (read text under Foam/Scenery below) wouldn’t ship well, so I doubt I’d be able to sell them online anyway.

This idea is a work in progress, any feedback would be great.

One of the main reasons I was against totally rebuilding my layout was the raw materials used to build it; the lumber for the benchwork and the 2" thick foam I used as the layout surface.

I think I figured out how to salvage most of it though.

Benchwork

  • Table legs will be re-used on the next layout.
  • Backdrop panals will also be reused (now I know how big each module/section will be!)
  • Other lumber will be used to buld the benchwork, there will be some scrap, which I will probably sell as firewood to neighbors or something.

Foam/Scenery

  • Scenes will be cut apart and sold (this is where the online site and the Kalmbach policy comes in) so people can have their own little section of the WRS, maybe even use it in their own layout. Scenes that aren’t yet finished will be completed. The track will remain in place.

Equipment

Locomotives, rolling stock, and my DCC system will be kept for the next layout.

So, what do you think? Is this a plausable idea? I realize I won’t get every penny back (far from it, in fact) but it will give me a fresh star

19

Tyler–

Just my [2c] on the 2" foam base. Are you SURE that’s one of your problems? Reason I ask is that my 24x24’ Yuba River Sub is built ENTIRELY on a 2" foam base, and it has never been a problem for me–I’ve just cross-braced the foam every 14" or so, instead of the usual 24", and it’s sturdy as a rock. I haven’t had any trouble with sag or crack, even building the trackwork from 0" at base level to almost over 18" at Summit level. If you want, check out my layout photos on either of the websites below my signature. The whole thing is foam. Lightweight, and trouble-free, even almost eight years after I started it. And I run HEAVY trains with big steam locos.

Just a thought. My problems are usually with dust/pollen (uninsulated garage) and track expansion during these awful California Valley summers, but my foam base is definitely NOT a part of the problem.

Tom [:)]

20

Hi!

Join the club! I believe we all have been frustrated one time or another. But before you get the sledge and chop saw, let an “old timer” give you some guidance…

“Twer I were you”, I would pull all the cars/locos off the layout and go over each piece of track with a brightboy or whatever 0-5-0 powered cleaning method you prefer. The object is to be able to run a cloth pressed against the rail head and have no residue (black stuff) picked up.

I assume you have nickel silver track. If you have brass track, you will have a more difficult time keeping it clean. Yes, some will argue that point but they are in the minority.

Next, start cleaning all the wheels on your locos. This is not the easiest of jobs but there are things out there to make it easier. And of course, the next job is to clean the wheels of the rolling stock. I recently changed out all my plastic wheelsets to metal, and it does make a difference. However, this can be expensive. Obviously, putting dirty wheeled cars and locos on clean track will get you right back where you were in short order.

I “assume” your power to the tracks is ok, but you may want to get a simple testor and run it around the layout to see if you have dead spots. Trust me, even someone who “knows better” can have that problem…

And of course there is the trackage itself, and I would make sure you have no kinks or bends or out of gauge tracks.

Hey, give it a good shot, and you might be really surprised at the results!

Mobilman44