This is a series of discussions on the N&W class J locomotive, pending the upcoming restoration of 611. The first item of discussion is the top speed attainable by the J’s. The J’s were engineered for speeds up to 140 mph, but they were never tested to determine their top speed. The fastest I have information on that a J has ever gone is 115 mph, and they ran regularly at 110 mph. However, the N&W was not particularly a high-speed railroad, though they had the stretch of straight track from Suffolk to Petersburg where most of the high speed operation occurred. At present, the top speed attainable by the J’s is up to speculation. lois the friend of 611
Lois, you’ve pretty much nailed it. It was on the “racetrack” between Petersburg and Suffolk that a J got up to 115 miles-per-hour for a time before the engineer decided to play it conservative and throttled down. So we do know that much.
Theoretically they certainly could go up to 140, I suppose the math supported it, but whether it was wise to run them that fast is debateable. Personally I don’t think so. What for? Even running 100 mph on a regular basis may have been unwise. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
That being said, I would have loved to have been there for the ride! Wow!
One thing’s for certain, when 611 comes back they’ll never push it to the “century mark”, it’s just too risky for such an irreplaceable object. I wouldn’t push it that hard, as much as I’d love to.
According to what records I have, the fastest I have record of 611 going during her excursion career is around 80 mph. At present, no one has come forward to say anything different, and I’m perfectly comfortable with waiting until someone has a record of higher speed attained during that time. As for the present, I don’t know how fast they’ll allow her to go. Having ridden behind 630 when the speed slightly went over the original 40 mph speed limit, I suppose occasional higher speeds may be allowed with 611. But it is still early in the restoration process, and operation details are apparently set aside until the restoration is taken care of. lois the friend of 611
Hi Lois! 611 got up to 80 during her excursion career? I didn’t know that. Mind you, we didn’t ride until after the Dismal Swamp wreck and the speed limit was reduced to 40 mph.
Still, riding behind 611 at 80 mph. That must have been a gas!
I’d like for someone to come forward with some estimates on how fast 611 ran during her excursion career. However, I do know that during the ceremony to make 611 a National Mechanical Engineering Landmark in 1984, Bob Claytor noted that he hadn’t asked her to go at 100 mph, but felt she could attain that speed if necessary. I will note that Mr. Claytor, when he ran her, liked to run fast, so much that I call the rear notch on 611’s throttle the “Claytor notch”. lois the friend of 611
However, there were occasions when after the 40 mph speed limit was established, that 611 was allowed to exceed the limit. One of these was on one of her last runs, when she was allowed to attain 73 mph. On this and similar occasions, it was the train being behind schedule that allowed an exception to be made with the speed limit. lois
Hmmmmm, the “Claytor Notch.” Well, the boss can do whatever he likes, can’t he?
As was said on the video “Queen of the Fleet” when Mr. Claytor had 611 at 78 mph (above the 60 mph track speed on the portion of track between Continental and Fort Wayne on the former NKP) “Who’s going to tell the boss to slow down?” lois
The only time I ever saw her “on her knees” in Oct of 1992; on Saluda Grade.[:'(]
The other chases, she seems to be an easy steamer, and do not think that they had ever taxed her abilities with a train. Often wondered how much tonnage 611 could handle if they put her on a freight. Id think 611 was every bit as strong at the #844, if not more so. [:-,]
The most I have heard of her pulling was the 29 passenger cars I saw her handling on Christiansburg Mountain during the side by side runs with 1218 during the 1987 NRHS convention. That leads me to believe she is capable of pulling 30 passenger cars, she regularly pulled 25 or more cars in excursion service. Now, she might not be asked to pull so many, as there might not be that many coaches available, as well as other changes that I need not go into. As for freight trains, a J once pulled 100 hoppers. 611 seems only to be given short freight consists on ferry runs in excursion service, and there seems not to be any interest in taxing her abilities in that regard. lois
The fastest authenticated speed is that achieved in the PRR testing, a shade over 113 mph. It should be noted that this resulted in fairly prompt failure of a sort that would be difficult to avoid in normal operation, to wit valve lubrication. Note that there is a nontrivial difference between 113 and 115 mph; it isn’t a matter of ‘just a little more throttle and we’d have gotten there…’ or of engineers possessed of secret go-fast git-r-dun lore. Is there an objective source for this ‘racetrack’ speed?
Practical maximum ‘sustainable’ road speed would be considerably less, but might still have been 100 mph or even a bit over. I base this partly on the AAR rotational-speed recommendations of the time, which contain a 504 rpm maximum rotational speed criterion. This isn’t really the question on N&W, though. The 100 mph capability was intended more as ‘dash’ (for the short sections where high speed was appropriate or even achievable, and for making up time where permissible). Designing for this represented, in my opinion, very good common sense. In this light, the decision to go to an overall stronger main-rod configuration (eliminating that long pin on #4 pair) even if it compromised ultimate speed a few mph would be sensible; even more sensible was the decision not to make the modification until absolutely required…
You will have to show me that math.
AAR ‘maximum speed’ (at 504 rpm) would be right at 105 mph. The PRR test had exceeded 540 rpm, which for 70" drivers with conventional
The only time when 611 ran with only a few cars was on Saluda Grade, where she took only four or five cars up the grade, the rest being sent up behind diesels. The reason being that there was concern what the combined tractive effort of 611 and the diesels might do to the drawbars and couplers of some of the passenger cars. As for the first trip in 1992, she did have some trouble, but was able to restart and conquer the grade after a quick check of the sand and other things. Now that’s a job that would have required some coaxing, if you know what I mean. lois
And of course, there is my new avatar, but we have more important business at hand. lois
Where’d I get the 115 mile-per-hour figure? From a Mike’s Train House “O” Gauge catalog! Hey, Mike doesn’t lie about that stuff!
Only those HO weirdos lie about that stuff!
Actually, if no one was able to understand my previous post, I meant by coaxing on Saluda Grade the vocal kind, though I have yet to see a crew speak to a steam locomotive in that way. Though, with the stress of getting the locomotive up the grade, any kind of assistance was possible. However, I do know that crews do speak to a steam locomotive in a nonvocal way, though the locomotive speaks in a audible manner. It is this audible communication by the locomotive, as well as other details, which makes the steam locomotive the most humanlike of all machines. lois
“The most humanlike of machines.” That pretty much says it Lois, altho’ I consider them more like big friendly dogs.
Forget computers, artificial intelligence, nanotechnology and all the rest. The closest God has let man come to creating life has been the steam locomotive.
Apparently, Bob Claytor felt the same way. I don’t remember his exact words, but he considered 611 practically human and as a friend. With that, I can’t wait to see what 611 is like when she is running! lois
Of course it would be interesting to get attention from a 300 ton “puppy”. lois
“If you abuse her, she will scream. Slipping wheels is not a good thing to do, and she will tell you that right away.” Bob Claytor, during the ceremony to make 611 a National Mechanical Engineering Landmark in 1984. Mr.Claytor certainly had no doubt about her abilities. And he seemed to be anxious to show the world what she could do. lois
Just a question… I’m curious about.
I have been fortunate enough to see both the 611 and U.P. 844 run.
Both amazing machines. But i do not think I have ever seen side by side statistical comparisons.
How do these two 4-8-4’s compare? Power, weight, Potential speed, etc.
Thanks, in advance. [:-^]