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N&W No. 611 trademark will ‘protect assets,’ help maintain locomotive
less reason to go out to see/ride/photograph that locomotive. To equate the N&W 611 with the Mona Lisa is a HUGE stretch. Guess the NS will have to pay a fee to use the term N&W 611 on any of the Form-D’s that they issue so the dumb thing can operate.
I fail to see how protecting the imagine of N&W 611 is harmful to any ordinary railfan. It is the property of the museum, not anybody who wants to use the image to make money.
It’s all about money, the US way, and making a profit regardless of your main reason of existence.
This doesn’t sound near as bad as when it was first reported on a couple weeks ago. This is no different than what any of the railroads have already done with all their current and predecessor road names or what any company (including mine, a large agricultural and construction equipment manufacturer) does as a matter of routine business.
For us railfans, nothing will be different. No different than any other railroad name, paint scheme, or “likeness” of locomotives, most of which are already trademarked. This will not affect taking pictures or videos of the engine unless you’re selling it (like a DVD or photo print). I would think that presenting shots of 611 on photo/video sharing sites like Flickr or YouTube won’t be an issue. I hope.
There are always people who think the word paying does not apply to them: gimme gimme gimme for free.
The trademarking of No. 611 secures the locomotive’s financially to remain operable and presentable. The current fund raising campaign is just the catalyst for No. 611’s continued life beyond the museum real estate.
Speaking from experience in publishing we never sold enough books to make a dent in any operating expenses of any locomotive or railroad. This will make the process that much harder. It basically tells the world that no one can tell the tale of N&W 611 except a select group of elites. Even if one were a retired engineer or mechanic unless you go through these people, a group that neither designed, built nor retired this locomotive, you cannot tell your tale. This is nothing new. Many a NRHS chapter and/or historical society have taken it upon themselves to challenge free speech and declare themselves the one-stop-shop for a particular railroad or portion thereof to be their sole domain. It never ceases to amaze how this industry continues to divide and conquer itself from within.
I wonder what the policy of Union Pacific is in regard to 844 and 3985. I can’t imagine that they don’t have those locomotives similarly protected. Honestly, if the price of an H0 scale version of #611 goes up a few dollars, and that allows the locomotive to operate once or twice more in a year, I think this is a pretty good deal. Either way, the article seems pretty clear that if you’re not trying to make money off of the locomotive, this isn’t going to affect you. And if you are trying to profit off of the locomotive, I think you should be compelled to contribute your fair share to the future of this artifact.
However, I do have a problem with some of the recent news about price points for attending certain “sessions” with the locomotive. If some old guy that has the money wants to donate $600 to get some cab time, then that’s great, but how about offering that opportunity to some younger kids and people without that kind of disposable income (maybe through a raffle or something). Historic equipment should be accessible to everyone young and old, rich and not rich. It just makes me cringe whenever I see that some sort of special access can be had - but only if you’re the type of person that can spend hundreds of dollars to go look at a train.
VMT is trying to use trademark law in a way that it was not designed for with their attempt to trademark the likeness of the 611. As for trademarking their logo and the various word marks I have no objection, but to say that the very image of the 611 represents VMT does not pass the basic trademark test.
So let me elaborate. If I were to show a photo of 611 to just about any railfan, and ask what is the first thing to come to mind, most would say either Norfolk and Western or Norfolk Southern or the NS steam program. How many would immediately say Virginia Museum of Transportation? Not many. A trademark is a symbol that represents a certain product. Its function is to create images in your mind of the product. For example, the round Pepsi logo, when seen, immediately creates an image of soft drinks in your mind. Nobody thinks that the logo represents anything else. But with the 611, it does not represent VMT because that locomotive design has had 65 years to create separate meanings in the public’s mind. So VMT is not trademarking the likeness of 611 to protect the investment they have in the locomotive representing VMT, they are merely trademarking to prevent anyone else from profiting on something that they own.
This attempt is to create a monopoly, and to use the power of law to dominate their particular little piece of the marketplace. Wouldn’t it be great if every business could simply ban competitors from selling the same products? Great for that seller but not in the best interests of the marketplace. A better solution would be for VMT to come out with their own line of officially authorized products that are of better quality and a better value than anything that a competitor could offer, and thus dominate sales. This is the free market capitalism that we Americans love and enjoy, and deep down inside all of us bristle at the idea of someone gaming the system to gain an unfair advantage in the marketplace.
The biggest difference is the VMT is a non-profit organization not a large corporation. And a relatively small one at that. Anyone who thinks they are “cashing in” or “money hungry” has not had much experience with museums. How many other groups were forced to shut down their operation of a large steam engine due to rising operating costs? Additional sources of income other than excursion tickets are vital to ensure continued operation. I highly doubt the VMT will attack any Tom, Dick, or Harry selling a picture or slide. Frankly they don’t have the time or the man power.
And yes it is true that 611 is associated with the N&W and NS. One of the major reasons the VMT is conducting this restoration is to better associate themselves with their own property. The VMT did not have to start this endeavor but they chose to do so to promote their own organization. I for one am in full support of the VMT and these efforts to keep 611 running for future generations.
Here we have a good example of projecting an assumed importance (of an object, in this case a steam loco) on the part of an organization which, so far, has gained plaudits for its work. And a good example of stepping upon a vulnerable anatomical ornamentation in the process.
1). This isn’t going to make them much money because in their own words, the fee will be “nominal”. So the whole idea that this will somehow financially support this restoration (and therefore worth the trouble) is a complete fabrication.
2). This isn’t going to make them much money because model manufacturers will simply make models of N&W #600-610, #612-613, make un-numbered models, or simply not make models of any N&W Class J at all. Even if they did, production runs are so low and so infrequent that the income wouldn’t be worth the trouble to keep track of it, even if the fee wasn’t “nominal”. The idea that model manufacturers will kowtow to VMT’s demands over one engine or engine type is ludicrous.
3). This isn’t going to make them much money because railfan DVD’s are not exactly blockbuster sales leaders at the local hobby shop or on Netflix. The idea that a “nominal” DVD fee will fill that tender with even water (let alone coal) is about on par with that soda can 5-cent deposit I turned in the other day paying off my college loans.
IOW, this is not about money, it’s about control. They want to control our hobby, just like UP tried to do 10 years ago. UP had a lot more muscle because they had more things to control, and even they backed down when they realized that MTH’s lawyers were costing them more money than the licensing was bringing in. Does VMT really think they can win a battle that even a billion dollar corporation like UP could not? MTH does indeed make a Class J. If VMT sues MTH over it, I don’t think MTH will back down an inch. Would VMT rather pay for running repairs or lawyers? Right now, I’m guessing lawyers, based on the above nonsense.
4). I still wonder what they plan to do with O. Winston Link’s photos. Do they plan to sue his estate? Do they plan to serve cease and desist orders to all book dealers selling N&W O.W.L. books with Class J’s i
My take is one of the primary purposes is to control commercial competition with sales of souvenirs in the gift shop. Somebody out on the sidewalk, so to speak, selling cheaper postcards, calendars or T-shirts and undercutting the gift shop prices will cut into the profits they need to help support the museum and the 611. Registering the trademarks is about the only way to achieve the goal.
The only reason that the 611 brand will have measurable value is the investment made by the VMT and its donors to restore the locomotive to operation. It is quite reasonable for the VMT to wish to get at least token compensation from commercial businesses wanting to cash in on the excitement.
I doubt that the VMT expects to cash in with big bucks from licensing fees. But most museums are chronically underfunded and even a modest additional amount can make a difference.
Not to get too technical, but the Mona Lisa has been public domain for nearly 400 years now.
I second Mr. Cutler’s remarks; I sincerely appreciate VMT’s efforts in restoring and operating this locomotive, but these trademarking efforts will do more harm than good.
Ever heard of ‘Thomas the Tank Engine’? Perhaps you have seen the TV series, train sets, riding toys, children’s books and coloring books. Then there are the appearances of ‘Thomas’ at preserved railways and museums. Anybody think Thomas isn’t a serious revenue generator? The VMT has to protect its interests in the event that 611 becomes popular for some unexpected reason and duplicates the fame of Thomas.
Thomas the Tank Engine is a product of publishing meant for entertainment revenue and has always been protected by copyright. N&W 611 is a product of industry meant for hauling passenger trains. Moving to protect that image after 65 years is like closing the barn door after the iron horse has already departed. Had the 611 always been property of VMT then they might have a case.
She is so full of it, it is ridiculous!! The whole thing smells of the bs the UP and BNSF tried years ago to copyright the logos and paint schemes of their respective predecessors.
good one Kermit Jerry ! love your response !!!