Hello, For a few years now I have been thinking about converting my locomotive fleet to DCC. However the cost of decoders has caused me to decide against it on several occasions. The reason for this is that I have a fleet of about 25 locomotives, about 10 of which are DCC ready (Plug and Play) and one of which is a Bachmann DCC equipped. The brands I have include Atlas, Athearn, Spectrum (Bachmann), Kato, and Wathers. I was hoping to convert to DCC over a couple of years (to avoid buying 25+ decoders at once) and was hoping to use Bachmann DCC decoders in all my locomotives. The reasons for this are Bachmann decoders are relatively cheap and they operate under DC or DCC power without having to manually switch modes. Over the couple of years used to convert my fleet I plan to equip my small layout to operate under DC or DCC which is the reason I need decoders that operate on DC and DCC (and that the club I am apart of uses DC power). I do not however like the Bachmann EZ-Command system (too basic) and the dyanamis system is out of my budget. I was hoping to use the NCE Powercab system with one type of decoder in all of the locomotives. So my questions are: 1. Will all the locomotives in my fleet be compatible with the Bachmann decoders? 2. Will the Bachmann decoders be compatible with the NCE Powercab system?
Don’t go by price alone when selecting a decoder because you’re likely to regret it when you start having a high failure rate, poor motor control, or programming problems.
Bachmann decoders would be a bad choice. NCE, Digitrax, or TCS decoders would be far more reliable and are not that much more expensive. Bachmann decoders are a watered down Lenz with very limited capabilities.
Look for TCS T-1, Digitrax, or NCE decoders from a source such as Ulrich Models and you will find that they are not expensive.
http://www.ulrichmodels.biz/servlet/StoreFront
I fell for the ‘cheap price’ when MRC first released decoders several years ago. As it turned out, they were cheap because 5 out of 6 were defective and they offered no warranty. TCS offers a ‘Goof Proof’ warranty. Even if a decoder fails because you wired it incorrectly, they will replace it for free.
Although I do not have any personal experience with the Bachmann decoders, I would have to agree wit cacole about staying away from them. My understanding is they are a similar design to the decoders Atlas supplies in some of their engines, and I do have personal experience with them and do not like them as well as other brands. I will add that almost all decoders available today suport running on DC or DCC without having to manually switch modes.
Since you do not plan on converting all of your engines at once, you might want to look at going with a Digitrax Zephyr because you can run a non-decoder equipped engine with a Zephyr(actually with other Digitrax command stations as well as with Lenz, but I suspect any of these would be out of your budget). Many people don’t like running DC engines on a DCC layout that is capable of it(the DC engine produces a loud buzz and personally I don’t do it myself), but there are also many people who do it all the time so it may be something you want to look into.
Those inexpensive Bachmann decoders are a really low end Lenz design and give generally poor performance. FOr the same pric, sometimes even less, you can get the NCE D13SRJ decoder ($12 each in 10 packs from Empire Northern, for example) which actually IS a very good decoder. The TCS T-1 has even more features, but also costs a bit more, about $17 each. Avoid the Bachmann.
–Randy
I only have or make that had one Bachmann decoder, I removed it because the speed control was poor. I could not get it run smoothly. I have an NCE powercab and an NCE power pro system, the Bachmann decoder will work on both. But for maybe a few bucks more I’d buy an NCE D13SR or a TCS T1 decoder.
In my opinion, there is no reason to only use one type of decoder in all of yoiu locos, some may need smaller decoders, others will have a decoder that is custom designed to fit the loco, others have additional light functions. Also when you decide to put sound in some of your locos, you will want to get the appropriate sound decoders for the specific loco.
Whether NCE powercab is the right system for you is up to you, it is a good full function system that probably will meet your needs. It will run any decoder that meets NMRA specs and will program most (MRC being the exception that I am familiar with).
Don’t let 25 locomotives without decoders stand in your way. Do you operate all 25 at once on DC? I have an NCE powercab and I buy NCE decoders exclusively. Like the other poster said, you can get them in bulk for under $15 a piece. Just put decoders into 5 of your favorite loco’s and start from there. You will eventually have decoders in all of them. DCC is worth switching to even if you only had 2 loco’s with decoders. You will not be disappointed.
Just Do IT!
These are words of wisdom, this is what I did and now I have 48 out of my 60 plus locos with decoders.
Jamie,
Bachmann does not make decoders. Their ‘DCC On Board’ engines have a low end Lenz decoder. Their ‘Sound On Board’ steamers have a customized ‘Tsnami’ decoder from Soundtraxx. I do not think you have a good understanding of DCC - Most decoders will switch between DC and DCC mode(The only decoder that operated like you mention was the early Atlas decoder with the jumper). You can get very good decoders for about $15 each(and they far out perform those low end Lenz decoders that Bachmann uses. To answer each of your questions:
1> Bachmann does not make decoders.
2> No need for an answer(see above).
BTW, the Powercab is a very good entry level system. The Digitrax Zephyr is another good system. Both should operate any DCC decoder that is NMRA compliant.
Jim Bernier
I don’t know if Bachmann actually makes the decoders or if Lenz makes them for them, but it doesn’t matter as far as the validity of his questions because Bachmann sells them branded as Bachmann decoders.
Okay,Thanks for all the advice. Here’s what I’ve gathered from the responses, 1. Don’t use Bachmann decoders (or whoever makes the decoders that are branded as Bachmann) 2.The NCE Powercab appears to be a well recommended starter system; I haven’t heard anything too negative about it yet. I am thinking about using NCE decoders since I will probably purchase the NCE Powercab as my starter system. I am however, concerned about purchasing decoders that are not duel mode DC/DCC decoders. I am concerned about this because when I purchased my Kato SD90/43Mac in November 2007, the seller or myself didn’t know the locomotive was equipped with a DCC decoder. When I took the locomotive back to our club layout and put it on the DC mainline it was unresponsive. After taking it back to the seller we discovered that there was a decoder onboard. The next day the seller brought the jumpers required to run the locomotive on DC and kept the decoder (as part of our agreement when we discovered the decoder, it was of no use to me at the time). I do not know what the decoder was but it was not duel mode, and if I purchased a similar decoder today I would have a problem, because every time I wanted to run my locomotives on a DC layout I would have to remove the decoder. If I could get some suggestions on what decoders will have this problem it would be greatly appreciated. As for wiring my 5’x10’ layout for DC/DCC I already have a plan that I am very confident in. The layout is presently wired for DC block wiring, powered by an MRC 6200 transformer. You might be able to see my layout if you go to the forum I am posting its progress in at
One of the most reliable decoders that is most definitely dual mode and requires nothing on your part when changing from DC to DCC mode is the Train Control Systems (TCS) T-1. The NCE D13SR is also a dual mode decoder. Any Digitrax decoder would be another good choice, as well as a higher quality Lenz decoder other than the one sold by Bachmann under their brand name…
As some have mentioned already, almost all decoders (NCE, TCS, Digitrax, etc.) out there will work on DC or DCC. When you say this in your response:
To me that sounds like the decoder was programmed to run on DCC only. When you get your feet a little more wet with DCC, you’ll learn that there are a lot of ways to customize a decoder to perform a variety of tasks or have certain attributes. Some users prefer to have their decoders to only run on DCC, others to run on DC or DCC, it depends what each of us want. Rest assured that the vast majority of decoders out there will be dual mode.
Jamie,
Most DCC decoders manufactured these days are dual-mode. However, there are two flavors that you need to be aware of.
One type senses whether the you are running DC or DCC and switches modes automatically - without you having to do anything to it. The other type and some older decoders require you to physically move a jumper on the decoder board to switch from DC to DCC and vice versa.
Just double-check the decoder manual before you buy it to find out which decoder you are getting. Most manufacturers have their decoder manuals online so that you can download them. This will also allow you to see what the particular decoder is capable of doing or not doing.
Hope that helps…
Tom