Hi, I have the NCE Procab -R throttle and want to re-program my locomotives using the Procab. My locomotives currently are all programed using Digitrax and JMRI. What other NCE items do I need to have in order to program my engines using the Procab? Would I be able to still connect with and use JMRI as well? I really like JMRI and hope they are compatible. Thanks for reading.
JRP
The first thing I thought when reading was… why would any engine that’s currently working, need to BE “re-programmed”?
Do the engines run as they should with the NCE controller? Do all the functions work, etc. ?
If so… again… why would they need re-programming?
You won’t be using the ProCab if you use JMRI. However, you will be using the command station. JMRI will work through the command station via a cable connection between the computer and the command station.
I joined a club that uses NCE. All of my locomotives were programed using Digitrax and JMRI. Not all Digitrax CV’s programed work in NCE, and the consists don’t always work. I had to re-program two locos at the club from their Digitrax signals over to NCE. So, I’d like to have the right NCE equipment at my home shop in order to re-program my locomotives using NCE. The Procab cannot do this alone.
I don’t understand your question. If you want to use JMRI and have a computer, all you need is a connection between the computer and the command station. No other special equipment is required.
Also don’t understand what you mean about Digitrax CV’s being different, unless you are speaking strictly about consisting. Yes, there is a difference here because Digitrax and NCE have different opinions as to how this gets accomplished. Other than that, there is in my opinion not much difference.
There is no difference between the two brands, other than Digitrax and NCE having different approaches to the concept of Consisting. NCE uses a hybrid of Advanced/Command Station Consisting which they call Intelligent Consisting. The result is that a consist on an NCE layout will not work when moved to a Digitrax layout. Digitrax has their Universal Consisting, which is a variation on command station consisting.
Clearing CV19 (set by the NCE system) would proabably eliminate your issue.
First of all, are you saying the ProCab alone (well, the Power Pro system, you can’t do anything with just the Pro Cab) cannot reprogram your locos using JMRI, or are you saying it cannot re-program them at all, which is what it sounds like you are saying. The Power Pro system absolutely can reprogram them without JMRI. There are two options for using the Power Pro system with JMRI - the builtin serial interface or the NCE USB adapter (although mostly advertised as being for the Power Cab it works with the Power Pro system as well). The serial interface requires a USB to RS-232 adapter (or network to RS-232 adapter, which gets a little more complicated). Not all USB to RS-232 adapters work with it so the easiest method is the NCE USB adapter.
The CV’s don’t know what system they are programmed on - they’re going to work the same regardless. What can be different is how the system interacts with the locomotive. As mentioned, they handle consists differently. Unless you understand those differences and know how to handle them the best thing to do is always clear any consists and rebuild them on the other system when going from one to the other. If you get to a point where a loco that was ever in a consist is not responding, which ever system you are currently on, make sure it is cleared from any consist on the system and clear CV19 (program it to a value of 0) on the loco.
Another area that can be confusing is addressing. There are two loco decoder addresses, a primary (often called 2-digit or short) address and an extended (4-digit
As I understand the question. You have an NCE-R throttle that you use at your club. Not an NCE system, just a throttle? At home you have a digitrax system. Right?
Even if you get an NCE system at home, there will still be incompatible consist addresses. The best way to do dual system running is to breakup consists before going to the club and re consist at the club.
I had the same situation. Instead of consisting my five Alco road switchers, I picked one and made the other four the same address as the first. To make directions easy the odd number locos were set to run in reverse in CV29. I still have these five locomotives running with the same address for over a decade. This works great for engines that will always be running together.
If you really want to have NCE at home. The least expensive way to go would be a Power Cab and USB interface. Or opt for another Power House Pro R system. But that’s a lot of money.
Pete.
He wasn’t very clear on his situation, but I think you may be right.
If Pete is correct on your situation, then there really is no need to buy additional equipment just to be able to program with NCE. You can do all of your programming with Digitrax because the decoder does not kow what system it was programmed on and will respond the same regardless, you just have to have an inderstanding of how the systems interract with the locos (see my previous post). This is true even if you had NCE at home and are wanting to move consists bewteen systems (if you set up a consist, at home it will not run at the club, unless you know to use the consist address, and even then, there could be a conflict with another consist).
If you want to connect JMRI to NCE here is your link.
CSX Robert and others are correct. Even if you have the consists running correctly on one system even if both were NCE, Digitrax, or Lenz. There are settings held in each command station that won’t be in the other command station in advanced consist modes. Another thing to consider is the clubs system memory. Even a small club can fill up the memory and it needs to be purged wiping out any consist settings you have programmed previously. My old club used Lenz. The memory was called the Stack. It held all the locomotive addresses and consist information. Periodically the Stack needed to be dumped or problems with operation would happen.
In my mind the and my past experiences running in club and home is to not transfer consisted (advanced or universal) between club and home. While decoders are strictly standardized with running CVs. Command station protocols are not. This is why your NCE throttle will not work on Digitrax. But your NCE decoder will work on any system within the BASIC programming.
Hope this helps.
Pete.
OK, I should have been more clear on what I want to do. I want to go forward using NCE at home and at the club layout…no more Digitrax. All of my locomotives that are in consist always run together were originaly programed using Digitrax, so it sounds like I will want to re-consist them with NCE at home so all I have to do is take them to the club layout and run on NCE without re-consisting them at the club. In order to do that, it sounds like I could purchase the USB interface to use with my Procab or purchase the command station to work with JMRI. I realize there is a bit of price difference between the USB interface and the command station. Thanks to all of you and to Lee for giving me the link to JMRI and how to operate NCE with it. Do I make more sense now??
Ummmm, no, not exactly. The following assumes you have an NCE command station at home.
In the first place the Procab talks to the command station, not directly to the decoder. Let’s assume you want to consist locos 1000 and 2000.
So you would use the cab to create the consist. Then you would follow the Cab prompts to assign the 1000 as the lead and 2000 as the trailing unit. You will also see that a consist address has been assigned to the consist. The command station does the assigning of this address, starting with 127 and either using this number or the next available lower number.
When you want to run the consist you can select either the lead or trailing loco number. However, these are really alias numbers that the command station remembers which were assigned to consist 127.
If you want to prove this out, I believe that you can select loco 127 and you will see that the consist will still run.
Anyway, what this all means is that consist information will be retained in YOUR command station, but not the club’s.
The best procedure, to avoid problems/confusion, is to break up the consist at home and reconsist at the club. And before you remove the engines from the club layout, be sure to again clear the consist.
Even if you consist them at home with NCE you won’t be bale to run them at the club unless you know to run them with the consist address (you won’t be able to select the locomotive’s address to run the consist). You will also have to keep track of club and home consist addresses to prevent conflicts.
To program (or run) at home with the Pro Cab will need to get a command station whether or not you get the USB interface. The Pro Cab is just a cab and the USB interface is just an interface and neither one has command station capabilities. You could get the Power Pro command station, a Power Cab (which is a cab and comand station in one), or a SB5 SamrtBooster. The SmartBooster or even the Power Cab would most likiely handle your needs.
In my previous post I pointed out a couple of options.
1 Power Cab and USB interface.
2 Power House Pro R system.
The NCE radio throttle you own now DOES NOT have a command station in it. The Power Cab looks and functions just like your throttle except for the Power Cab having a command station built in it.
Still as others are saying. The transfer of consisted locomotives will still be problematic.
Pete.
Hello All,
Welcome to the wonderful world of NCE.
I switched from the Bachmann Dynamis DCC system to NCE a few months back and have no regrets. I use the wireless Power Pro with SB5 command station/booster.
You didn’t mention what decoders are installed in your locomotives.
I use mostly Digitrax non-sound decoders.
When I switched to NCE, and used Advanced consisting, the motive power in the consists seemed to lose power.
When I contacted Digitrax I was informed that their decoders “handle” Advance consisting slightly different, and what I needed to do was give CV 57 a value of 102 (CV57=V102) to all locomotives using Digitrax decoders- -no matter what series they were.
VOILA! Problem solved.
I run JMRI DecoderPro to a standalone programming track from my Mac desktop computer.
A Digitrax PR3 is the only interface between the Mac and the programming track. Digitrax has upgraded to the PR4.
If you want to run JMRI DecoderPro directly from your computer to the command station/booster I believe you will need the USB to Serial Cable from NCE.
NCE has amazing customer service!
I would contact NCE just to make sure of the hardware needed.
Hope this helps.
What a hassle…I thought I could use NCE at home to set up consist numbers and simply take the locos to the club (small club), use my Procab and just run the locos there since they also operate on NCE. Our old club used Digitrax along with JMRI and I would set up my locos on consist using JMRI (at home) and then take the locos to a club set up (usually a show) and simply run them fine all day. Sounds like I won’t be able to do this now easily with NCE.
Thanks to you all though for the good information. JRP
Hello All,
Yes…it is a process.
However, once done you don’t have to worry about further hassles because you are transferring your DCC motive power from NCE to NCE DCC control systems.
The Basic and Advanced consisting will transfer.
Universal consisting will need to be re-established between your home and club pikes because of the way this consisting is “held” in the individual NCE command stations.
You still can but it will take some time, effort, and possibly an investment in your home pike.
The other option is to use the clubs’ system to make these changes, which will carry over to your home pike.
A couple more questions…
How was your computer interfaced with the Digitrax system before?
What hardware/cables software (drivers) did you use?
When the good folks at Digitrax told me to adjust CV57=V102 for Advanced consisting, my question to them was, “Will this change in CV affect the singular (non-consisted) running of each unit?”
Their response was, “No, changing CV57 doesn’t affect “normal” operations outside of Advanced consisting.”
I wish I had a better answer…
Hope this helps.
Not really. After you do it the first time it becomes very easy. And if you do the consisting at the club you don’t need you own computer nor JMRI. And you will avoid any conflicts with consist numbers. You will only need to worry about someone else having locos with the same numbers as yours.
And when I belonged to a club, it took longer to unpack and repack the locos I brought than it took to consist and unconsist them.
Slightly off topic, but you do realize that you can’t just take your Cab to the club and use it without making sure that it has a unique Cab number, correct?
To be clear, I wasn’t saying you couldn’t do this, I was saying you would have to use the consist address to run them. I was also pointing out that you can program them with Digitrax and do the same thing, so moving to NCE won’t make that aspect any easier. If you were setting up consists at home and running them at the club before, then you must have been using advanced consisting and running them from the the consist address - you can still do that**,** with either NCE or Digitrax at home. You do, however, have to make sure that they don’t conflict with other consists created at the club. NCE automatically assigns the consist address, but it can be changed when the consist is cretaed to avoid conflicts. Also, when running the consist on NCE using the consist address, you have to make sure you select it as a “short” address (no leading zeros). For example, if the consist address is “15” and you select “015” on NCE, it won’t run, you have to select it as “15.”