My wife and I moved up from the Florida Keys to the Gainesville area
of Florida three months ago. It’s now time to seriously start
putting my track plan on paper. We have an unfinished detached 2
car garage and I have walled in a little over half of it for the layout
room. If you look at the diagram below you will see the
dimentions are 18 X 15 with a small encroachment around the remaining
sliding garage door. I have been looking at this setup for three
months now and have some serious tunnel vision. I can’t imagine
any other layout design which is why I need some fresh eyeballs looking
at it. I definately want a two track main because I operate alone
99% of the time and I like a train running while I busy myself on
another track. I drew in the two tracks just to see what kind of
radi I would be looking at with this configuration. Other than
the island which is 29 in radi the smallest elsewhere is greater than
35 in which compared to my last layout 22 in was my largest. I am
having a problem figuring out where to put my yard? I have the
option of walling in the optional 8 ft by 3 ft extension. The
problem with that is I really enjoy switching and i spend allot of time
working in the yard and this being off in an alcove doesn’t really
appeal to me. I also thought of doing a second level underneath
using a nolix and putting a yard under the 18 ft side of the
layout. Or I could do an upper level using a Nolix. I
figured with a 2.8% grade I can gain about 18 or so inches on one
loop. How does one hide or blend in a nolix track. Do you
just scenic it like it is a track going up or do you wall it in or just
ignore it? So I guess what I am asking is to look at the
dimentions of the room and see what you would do as far as designing a
layout. Or if what I have works for you how
Exciting, isn’t it?
Is there any reason why you couldn’t use your alcove yard as staging track…you don’t appear to have any, and the wisdom of the age seems to suggest you should have some staging, even if only a pair of stubs.
So, your yard could take over the industrial space at bottom center of the layout as you depict it. The length and room are about the same, and you already have the makings for a diamond configuration.
If you do a no-lix, I would not consider hiding it for more than about 2’ at a time in case something goes wrong back/behind there. Besides, for the length you are talking about, why hide your precious beasties for all that while? Nope, it has to be scenicked.
Selector - Tks for the tip. Yes i could do a yard along the 18 ft section. But that would put the engine facilities on the other side of the world. Maybe i could put the engine fac on the right side just before the Bridge access. That would put the yard and engine fac next to each other. On the other hand I have been seriously considering a second level above rather than below. More mainline and plenty of room then for a nice sized yard and engine facility. Tks for the help. Maybe I can get some more feedback from other folks.
Terry
Hi,
You’re linking to the thumbnail. Could you edit and take out the “th_” in front of your image file? That way we can see the plan.
Chip
Chip - I removed the th_ and it still won’t enlarge when you click
on it? It enlarges for me when I click just to the right of the
pic rather than on the pic. I had the pic thing down before the
forum update, go figure.
Terry
Me, too, I was able to enlarge it at least twice. When I put my cursor over it, I got a little magnifying glass with a + in it.
The only logical place for the yard is the 18’ section. I would also make that area 30" and work the engine service in. One of the corners or the throat of the yard might be good. You can take the 6" off the far side (next to current engine service.) That area could be something equally cool like a stub-end passenger terminal like Phily or Pittsburgh. Or a Wharf.
What is the road name, era and location. If it is a mountain or hilly area you can cross over yourself like a figure 8 in the peninsula to give a little more variation both visually and vertically. If you do it right, you can create two scenes and a larger panorama without the backdrop.
Now is the time to start placing your industries. You take the track to the industries, not fit the industries and scenery to the track. That is the way you box yourself in.
Some comments and suggestions on your plan. Remember, these are only worth the paper they’re printed on…
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I’d put a yard area by the engine servicing area for sure, PLUS have the train staging / storage area back around the alcove. The one by the staging would be the “working / playing” area, and the oone around back would be the storage area for when you want to move entire trains off the layout. Trust me, locomotives and rolling stock tend to expand to fill all yards and sidings available! The yard out front would be sceniced, and the one around back would be plain storage.
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Add a couple of full-length passing sidings. You have one that’s about 7 feet long. Do you have room for at least one more? And maybe longer? By being able to pass trains, you can increase the number of running trains from two to three or more, and require some hands-on work to keep them all going.
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I like your engine service area and turntable. You’ll want to dress up this area, emphasizing it, and adding plenty of support structures. Water tower, sanding tower, yard tower, etc.
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At the lower left I’d pull the inside track in, placing more seperation between the inside and outside tracks. This would allow some scenery between them and make them not look like two parallel tracks. You want to minimize the similarities and double-track effects between these two tracks.
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Add a couple of “short” stub sidings to serve businesses along the routes. It’ll add some character and give you places to “go” and deliver cars.
I’m sure as you get closer you’ll get suggestions on the design of the yard.
Have fun!
Mark in Utah
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Using the existing benchwork design, and the idea of a nolix - why not make a dog-bone or double track loop putting the loops in the center island one over the other. That gives the desired double track, increases the “run” of each loop and leaves lots of places for industries.
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I haven’t drawn it to scale but I think there is a great out and back possiblity here. Come out of the yard extension area to the left just as it is now, except a reverse baloon track would need to be added where the loco facility is. The bench goes down the left but no island, and across the bottom as drawn. Now as it approaches the right side it either turns around and does a big loop doubling back on itself. Continuous run trains would go from this loop to the baloon track and back. Terminating trains would use this loop as a reversing loop and return to the yard. If you didn’t mind eliminating the continous running train the baloon track would not be needed and the big double back loop could be put on a island coming from the right hand side - no duck under or lift out required.
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Combinations of the above two. Eg. A dogbone with the loops in the new places.
Unfortunately, I’m unable to upload pictures to post. I’ll try to send them in an e-mail.
First I want to thank everyone that took the time to assist me. And second sorry for the pic not being more friendly. Its not as cut and dried as the old forum. Some additional details: I model the NYC/NKP (same RR on my pike) in the early 50’s somewhere in the NE US. I have decided to go with a second level via a no-lix. If my math is correct I have about 50 ft which is 600 inches. So if I go with a 3% grade that gives me about 18 in of rise. I have plenty of loco horsepower for a 3% grade. F1/2 ABBA and an ABA C-Liner consist as well as a PCM 2-8-8-2 (which pulled 4 cars up a 6%). Space Mouse I like your idea of widening the 18 ft side to 30 in and combineing yard/engine fac. I can then put an Interchange on the top level with another small yard. It gives me more to think about. I will come up with a basic two level plan and post it for critique. I’m not that good with XTRK CAD yet so it will be very basic. Thanks again for your input and if you have any more ideas I would love to hear them. We have no plans on moving making this my first permanent layout so I want to take my time and do it right.
Terry
I made the mistake of building the wrong kind of layout for my first…it was permanent, as you put it. If you want to enjoy this effort, no matter what befalls you, I would suggest you find a way to break up your bench into manageable modules that can easily be detached and hauled out to a van. A few carriage bolts to hold it together in key places is all you need to keep it functioning well no matter where it is. Wiring cuts, a bit of damaged rail, and cut plaster scenery can be repaired over a couple of weeks, and you are back in business with virtually no additional expense.
We are looking at what? 28" radius curves? 7 Foot siding? A little bit of Staging? So far so good. What worries me is the really tough construction that requires you to get under the railroad to get into and out of it. You think after a certain age, it’s a challenge.
You can look into 10 foot siding in two or three different places around your railroad, have a way for you to walk into and reach every spot on the railroad without having to duck under anything.
Run a track with as much elevation as you can to get to a second level.
If you are going to keep the middle straight section that creates a wye, try to extend it so that your trains will hit both ends a few feet further along your mains that way your switches for that one track will not be so hard to get to. You will probably need a auto-reverser for that area also.
Doddle quite a bit. It is a nice first plan but for me I think it really restricts people movement.
Selector - I agree with the non permenant layout design. I should take a pic of the other side of the garage. I have a very large pile of lumber that represents my last layout I had in the Keys before we moved. I knew then that we would only be in south florida for two years or so. I built the layout in sections and in fact did bolt them together. I was able to salvage almost all of the trackwork as I did not do any scenicing at all. Was also able to keep most of the layout benchwork. So I at least have something to start with. As far as this layout goes…I will be using deck screws so If I have to dismantle it I will have minimum damage.
Safety valve - The swinging bridge on the right side by the door is going to be a gate type affair that I can swing closed when I am operating. So no more duck unders for me. I plan on having 24 in isles and the fact that I live out (way out) in the boonies chances are I will always be solo operating. As long as my behind doesn’t get any bigger I should be able to get around the layout ok.
I finished putting up a false stud wall covering the right hand garage door today. It now is 3/4 closed in. Next day or so I will finish up the other wall and start insulating and putting up a ceiling/lighting. I ran two ckts for lights so I can have a bank of white and a separate set of blue lights for night time ops. The garage is unfinished so I plan on attaching 2 X 4’s horizontally to the studs with braces. With no legs (except island section) I can store plenty of stuff underneath.
I am tentatively looking at a 3.1% grade giving me 20 inches of rise (using XTRK CAD) to the second level. Upper level will be 60 in and bottome level 40 inches. Minus about four inches for the benchwork I will have 16 inches for scenery on the bottom level. I may do a mock up to double check but it seems to be good. I am only 5’ 5" so I can’t go much higher without needing a stool.
Any more suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have p
Stacked loops, brilliant! I’m going to take a stab at a different next step…
First, reveal the upper and lower areas of the peninsula mushroom style, roughly 2’ deep scenes. (Keeping your double track together on each.) Then thin out the section opposite the end of the peninsula, to the left of the door. 2-1/2’ is probably wider than you need here, and the space can be better used. Reduce it to 18" or even less and lengthen the peninsula as much as possible. And maybe narrow it down to 3’ or so. This will also give you wider aisles. Put your yard and engine facilities along the back (18’) wall as suggested, add a helix where you show the turntable, and make the annex area a branch line. (Accessible via the bottom/back of the helix.) This should work if the helix can protrude slightly into the adjacent room. This will provide a nod-under at the doorway, leave your yard level, and get you back to the lower level. Add staging of the “Reverted Loop” style in John Armstrong’s Track Planning for Realistic Operation within the peninsula, and wrapping along the back walls. (Accessible thru the fascia below the upper level, and thru a valence over the lower level.) 4 or 5 tracks should do if you have them at both loops. (Split the double mainline thru the loop for co
Charlie - I am trying to digest your ideas. Just off the top of my head you mentioned a Helix. I really don’t have room for a helix. I all ready robbed space from he other side of the garage (which is a storage workshop area). So I can’t encroach anymore in that direction. I must admit I couldn’t get a mental picture of what you were saying. The idea of the mushroom style on the island was interesting. Maybe you can write a “mushrooms on the island for dummies” blurb. I have pretty much decided to go with a No-lix. And now that I have basically decided to double my real estate I am going to eliminate the alcove and the two foot by 11 foot encroachment at the top of the pic. So I will end up with a 13 X 18 rectangle. Again that gives back needed space for the workshop/storage on the other side. I do like the idea of ext the original 18 foot side to 30 inches and use that for yard/engine fac (tks SpaceMouse). I am going to put in some risers tomorrow and set up a 20 or 30 ft run at 3.1% and run some loco’s just to be sure It will work. I recently got the PCM 2-8-8-2 for xmas and had it running up a 6% with several cars so I am sure it will do the 3.1 easily. Thank you and all others who have donated time and ideas to this project. I will modify the layout pic and start round two.
Terry
Hi Terry,
I drew up a quick-n-dirty cross sect. (pardon the crudeness) hope this clarifies:
You’re standing at the doorway looking at the back of the room, with the long wall on your left.
I showed the room at 13’ wide, and a 5’ dia helix would prodrude into your adjacent space 1’ further than you origionally drew it. (And you have 3’ wide aisles, so this could easily be absorbed back into the main room by reducing them to 30" wide.)
The line from the yard comes around your left and goes behind you, over the doorway, and onto the helix. (Top loop is scenicked)
Exits the helix and travels away from you, along the back wall of the room and comes toward you onto the lower level of the mushroom.
Can you see it now?
Charlie - Hey that was a great diagram thanks. Nothing crude
about it. My only question is what did I gain from putting in the
Helix other than a short two level section on the island? I do
like the mushroom idea. I wonder if I could use the No-lix rather
than a helix and get the same setuup but with two full levels?
Terry
I know there is a Joe Fugate type romanticim about two levels, but consider with your space that either you’ll have all your track a 3% or you have a helix. While you add mainline, you limit what you can do with it.
It is my opinion that you will have a better-looking, better-functioning space with one level.
Hi Terry, The only things you gain from adding a helix are a “no-stoop” at the room entrance, (which is something that I personally favor.) and it’s accomplished without the entire line being on grade as in a no-lix. (Which, as Chip mentioned, is going to be a 3% grade all the way in your space (if you’re lucky) and not leave anywhere level for your yard, etc. And of course the helix does increase your mainline run, although with hidden trackage. (Oh, and don’t forget the branch in the adjacent room, behind the helix.)
What’s nice is you also get staging at both ends of the mainline for point to point op’s.
However, I’m beginning to lean toward Spacemouse’s thinking of one level because your room width will allow two independant scenes on the peninsula, back to back seperated by a backdrop. It does simplify construction considerably.
If you put your yard on the long wall, and keep it as far back (away from the door side) in the room as possible, put your ladder on the left, and roll your engine facilities around onto the back wall, so you can begin a grade as soon as possible. Set the elevation high, (50" or so) then do a 3% to the doorway, you may be able to achieve 55" for the entrance. This isn’t too bad as you said you’re 5’5" so it’s only a 10" bend to enter. (Hey, us short people do have some advantages- I’m 5’6") Higher layout elevations not only improve your vi
Well after reading all the input from everyone I went to
doodling and came up with a revised plan. Now that I am going to
a second level I eliminated the alcove and the 2 ft encroachment
. Using a NoLix around the room @ 3.1% grade I can gain 20
inches. The three pics below show the details. I drew in
some mainlines on both levels just to give me an idea of radi I would
have. Once I get the benchwork planning done I will start on a
detailed trk plan. I put in a rev loop on the upper deck to allow
me to turn my PCM 2-8-8-2 and also for continuous running back down the
NoLix. I am not concerned with a 3.1 % grade. I had my PCM
2-8-8-2 going up a 6% with four cars and a caboose. So a 3.1 will be
easy. I also have an ABBA consist of F1/2’s as well as an ABA
C-Liner consist. Very heavy and great pullers.
OK tell me what you think. This is far from permanent so don’t be shy.
The Upper Level
The NoLix Route
The Lower Level
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
Terry