I have two BLI SW7s and they are pitiful performers. They stall out when passing over the insulated frogs of my Atlas #6 turnouts. The are prone to derailing. Most annoying is their habit of causing a shutdown when I reverse directions and begin to accelerated. When switching cars how often do you suppose I am changing directions? It happens sporadically and there seems to be no rhyme nor reason for it. I would guess it happens about 50% of the time.
I have a DCC layout. Appearance is a distant second to performance. I don’t care about roadname since I will paint over the shell. Sound would be nice but not necessary. Most important it needs to be able to maintain power when passing over the insulated frogs in my yard. It is way too big to consider retrofitting powered frogs.
Just my opinion, but locomotives that are called “switchers” are more often found in industrial service than switching major yards. The N&W inherited some through mergers, but they never bought any switcher types. Use a full size locomotive. Also since your DCC, put a Keep Alive decoder in it to take care of your frog issues.
I have a Proto S1, a Proto SW8, an Athearn Baldwin S12 and a Proto H10-44. The SW8 is very light and came with traction tires on one axle, so it occasionally will stall on a frog. The SW8 and H10-44 came with factory sound. I had a LokSound decoder installed in the S1, and one of these days I’ll get around to putting sound in the S12. I don’t have keep-alive in any of them. When any of them stall repeatedly, it’s time to clean the track.
All of these run well and can pull whatever they need to.
I have some Kato NW2s. They’ve been converted to HOn3, but they’ve always performed well.They are very heavy, with the weight filling the shell and the motor embedded between the frame halves (they are designed like a N loco and this really helps).
On the other hand, all my frogs are powered. Keep in mind that if your loco doesn’t have good contact with both rails, despite short loco and truck wheelbases, if the electricity can’t flow, your loco won’t go. Carl425’s suggestion to use a larger loco is a good workaround.
A Life Like P2K(EMD and Alco),Atlas(Alco),Walthers(SW1,P2K or FM 10-44) or the older Athearn BB (SW7,S12,SW1500) or their RTR SW1500 are all top line switchers. Bowser makes a sweet Baldwin switcher as well.
All major railroads including the N&W used switchers in their yard since these switchers was designed and built to replae steam switch engines…N&W favored Alco’s T-5 switcher.
Even today you will find SW1500s and MP15s working the yards on major railroads.
Rather than ditching the BLI locos, it may be worth the effort to tune them up. There could be bad connections, broken wires, excess lubrication, dirty wheels or other issues interfering with their electrical pickup. A keep-alive capacitor unit like those available from TCS or Soundtraxx could help prevent stalling (assuming there’s enough space inside the loco for one to fit).
Derailing could be related to issues with the track, out-of-gauge wheels, or trucks not turning or rocking due to various problems that can be corrected (casting flash, wires hanging up, misaligned detail parts, etc.).
If you’re experiencing stalling or derailing on Atlas #6 frogs, have you filed the frogs down so they’re flush with the surrounding rails? The castings are often out of alignment with the rest of the turnout, and a mill file can correct the situation. Trucks bumping over frogs can exacerbate stalling problems. A diesel with eight-wheel pickup shouldn’t stall on Atlas #6 frogs, as at least one truck should be off the frog at all times. You could have continuity issues affecting the closure rails or rails diverging from the frog on one or more turnouts. Have you checked for continuity with a meter?
“Favored” is a bit generous. The large majority of switchers on the N&W came from NKP and WAB. The N&W only made one purchase of diesel “switchers”. They bought 40 T-6’s (not T-5) in 1959. They were used primarily at Lambert’s Point and Portsmouth Ohio. In the yards along the line like Crewe, Shaffers Crossing, Bluefield and Williamson switching work was done with road engines - usually in multiples.
And technically, since the “T” stands for “transfer” you can sort of make the case that these aren’t switchers.
My time, the 70’s, 80’s, on the B&OCT, used Alco S4, EMD SW900, SW9, NW2, some MU capable, were used extensively for switching, industrial and transfer service.
The Keep Alive is one option I will look into. That might solve the most irritating problem.
I’ve done about all the tuning up I can do with these. The wheels have been checked for gauge and cleaned repeatedly as has the track were they are stalling. The only way to keep the locos from stalling out at the frogs is to run them with enough speed so that momentum takes them over the dead spot and that just isn’t a realistic way to to yard switching.
As for the derailments, if lots of locos and/or rolling stock are derailing at the same spot, the problem is probably the track. If one (or in this cas
Did these come with axles with traction tires and also ones without? With traction tires you’re removing a good chunk of your pickup footprint. If they came with optional non-traction tire wheelsets, put those in. No, it won;t pull as much, but the electrical pickup will be greatly improved. Or if you always run them together, install jumpers between the track pickups, so if one hits a dead spot the other one will still be picking up power and pass it on.
I’m modeling in Nscale and by the way switcher are short wheel base.
When I started in Nscale, I used Peco insulated frog in code 80; stalling on the frog was by this time…the rule.
I had on this time a big yard whith a twelve yard track ladder, and a lot of frustration because of stalling locomotives.
The frustation was so big, I was on the point to jump to HO, but a friend of me used at the same time the new coming Peco code 55 whith the electrofog turnouts; I made a try whith one of my stalling loco (a 0-4-0 Atlas switcher) and she was running like a charm; a couple day later I ordered electrofrog turnout, retrofitted the yard and still use it whithout no more trouble. The cost was effective, but the happinness to see running my locomotives so well was a real enchantement
I think whith short wheel base locomotives, steam or diesels, running at small speed, from Z to O scale, you MUST use powered frog for running whithout trouble and frustration.
If You have a lot of turnouts to change, why not try to use a Fastrack jig to build nearly electrical bullet proof turnout; if you do this step, buy a crossover jig because you can build a turnout but also a crossover whith the same jig and a point and frog tools n°12 to use whith any number of turnout.
My Maclau River is largely inspired by the N&W and my switcher are inspired by this company.I still use my fleet of 0-4-0 Atlas switcher but repowered whith a micromo Faulhaber motor whith a gearhead of 4.1 and from a few time whith Bachmann slopped tender; the others are Walthers Life Like 0-8-0 and two mallets from the first run of the Walthers Life Like Y2-Y3 2-8-8-2; they look quiet well like the Z1 on the N&W; they were poor puller on mainline, but whith their around 13 cars poor pulling power thy are good switcher, the tender are short USRA from Bachmann and they all run on powered frog, from Peco code 55 for the older one and Fastrack fo
I have an Athearn RTR SW1500, which runs great on DC. It is DCC ready, and is equipped with a quick plug. The details are great for the price. There is an undecorated version, and Athearn also offers an SW1000 which is the same underneath. I would highly recommend the Athearn RTR SW1500 or SW1000.
To answer your first question, no they do not have traction tires. As far as I can tell, all eight wheels are designed to pick up power. One of the tests I run is to turn the bell on when the loco is stationary and then lift one truck and then the other. The bell remains on constantly when I raise up either truck. The problem comes when the loco is moving. The wheelbase is just long enough to bridge the insulated frog of an Atlas #6 turnout. The front axle of the leading truck and the rear axle of the trailing truck will both be on powered track. However when that happens, if the loco is moving at switching speed, it will stop dead. If it is moving a little faster, it might coast through that position. Once I have both axles from either truck on powered track, it keeps moving even if the other has both axles in the dead zone although I will see a hesitation when it goes over the frog. If I position it by hand so that only one axle from each truck is on powered track. It’s completely dead.
Although the Keep Alive option looks interesting I’ve lifted the shell to see how daunting a task it would be. The decoder has a four wire plug attached to the end of it and those wires connect to another small board under the roof of the cab. I assume the red and black wires are for engine power and the other two control the headlights. I haven’t looked at what capaciter would be appropriate for BLI’s SW7. If it’s something that can just be plugged in, that would be a lot more appealing than if I have to start soldering. My soldering skills are not exactly top drawer.
You might want to take a look at this old thread on the subject of the BLI SW7, some tips and maybe a fix for You. There is a how to PDF for it…but I can’t find it now and I thought I saved it. I did it to mine sometime ago and it improved quite a lot. One of the big reason’s for it having some of the problem’s, is a fact that it is a very light engine…but really no place to add weight.
Yes, it stalls in both directions. Since only one rail has a dead spot at the frogs, I would expect I’m drawing power from all four wheels on the opposite side. The problem is when only two of the four wheels on the frog rail are in a power zone. That’s when I get a hesitation and it stops completely if I am moving at swithing speeds. It always stops at the point where one wheel from each truck is in the insulated zone.
I’ve done tests which tell me both trucks are powered. With the loco stationary and the bell turned on, the bell rings continually if I lift either truck off the rails. When the loco hits the dead spot with one axle from each truck in the dead zone, everything shuts off. Motor, lights, sound.
Atlas turnouts can be modified to power the frogs but as I said in the OP, that is way too much retrofitting for me to even consider that option. I assume they would work something like the Walthers turnouts which have a powered frog but the rails have to be insulated on the diverging ends to prevent a short. I would be more inclinded to just use a road switcher as a yard switcher if I can’t find a workable solution for the shorter locos.
From your description of how it stalls I wonder if all axles are picking up power and conducting it from the rails to the decoder. You might try;
turn the locomotive upside down (in a foam cradle if you have one)
with two jumber wires, connect to each rail
address the locomotive and set the throttle to at least half power
touch the free ends of the wire jumpers to each axles pair of wheels.
if any do not spin the axles is not picking up power and/or not conducting it to the decoder
As other have suggested there may be continuity issues in the turnouts. Check all segments of rail to be sure they are all getting power.
But if you decide to get a new switcher, I can highly recommend the Baldwin S-12 and the EMD VO 1000, both by Bowser (formerly Stewart Models). They are fairly heavy with good pick up and very smooth runners even at low speeds.
What made Altas turnouts bulletproof for me (I dropped wires to power the frogs but never hooked them up) was to have feeders on all 3 legs. All my locos, of all sizes, would run through on step 1 with no stalls and not even a headlight flicker. So I never ended up hooking up the frog power.