Does anyone have the car by car make up of the 1980’s Amtrak California Zephyr? I’m trying to put together a prototypical HO train but don’t know how many Coaches, Coach baggage, sleepers etc I need for the entire train, which west of Denver included the CZ, the Desert Wind and the Pioneer. Please someone help!
Being an Amtrak fan myself, I couldn’t help resist at least trying to help.
To begin with, you’re locos would probably be P-40s in phase two paint scheme. You might want to go with at least two of these. As for the passenger cars, you’ll need a baggage car, a coach baggage, a coach or two, a dining car, a lounge car and a couple of sleeper cars also all in phase two paint scheme.
I’m told that very little has changed about the train over the years except the locos and paint scheme, and that it’s usually running much later than it use to back in the 80s…
Good luck to you.
Tracklayer
One thing though,
Amtrak’s primary workhorse during the 80s was the EMD F40ph, not the Genesis P40. There are photos on railpictures.net showing the Zephyr during the 1980s with 3 to 4 F40s on the head end.
Thanks for the help guys but I know the generalities. I got tons of pictures so I know what loco’s pulled the train and what the head end equipment was. The part I can’t tell from the photos is which Superliner cars were in the consists because they all look so much alike. cept for the diner and lounge. I’m really after a car by car make up of the Superliner consist of the Amtrak CZ in the 1980’s. So far I Haven’t been able to find any answers yet.
To help the process along, here is what I do know:
Power: Typically 2 F40PH’s, but sometimes 3 and as many as 4 (back to back or elephant style)
Head end equipment: Early 1980’s typically saw two baggage cars from the heritage fleet, sometimes three. Late 1980’s saw 2 or 3 Material Handling Cars MHC’s (early design). After the MHC II’s were built, those were also seen mixed in. Following the MHC’s, 1 conventional baggage car drawn from the heritage fleet.
Ahead of the Superliner cars was an Ex Elcapitan dorm/chair transition bilevel car. It was painted in the phase III paint.
After the bilivel transition car comes the Superliner consist that I don’t know the make up of exactly. It was as long as 11 cars of Superliners in the early 80’s. A 1991 video tape I have obtained from a fellow fan shows 8 Superliner cars in that consist. A diner and lounge is sandwiched between 3 other Superliner cars on both sides.
In the early 80’s the entire head end was in phase III paint - engines thru transition bilevel car. All the Superliners were in phase II paint. Throught out the 80’s, the Superliner cars were painted in phase III and the consists were usually a mix of the two until the late80’s and 90’s when there were solid sets of phase III paint.
Just to follow up …
The difficulty in determining the actual consists is that so many of the cars look alike from the side, especially the sleeper and the coach. It is my understanding that basically each section had about the same needs:
Pioneer: 2 coaches and 1 sleeper
Desert Wind: 2 coaches and 1 sleeper
California Zephyr: 2 coaches, 1 sleeper and a diner + lounge set.
The hard part is that there were coaches and coach baggage cars (the latter had a down stairs which was mostly dedicated to baggage and lacks the extra windows). It would be helpful to know where the coach baggage cars were used in the above consists.
The other thing is that the Pioneer and Desert Wind may have had one make up from SLC to their destinations, Seatle and LA, respectefully, and a different make up when combined with the CZ between Chicago and SLC, Utah. ie, they needed dining car service when running independantly and maybe a lounge too. Also they may have had an extra coach or coach baggage added or deleted when separated from the CZ.
Not to add to the confusion, but I did take a trip on the CZ from Sacramento to Denver (and return)in the 80’s. At least the East bound train had two of the coaches with the "family " cabin on the lower deck. I was able to book one for the trip to Denver. As I recall, these cars were not together in the consist.
Tilden
Was it possible that P30CHs were used on that train as well? I know they were used on the Sunset during the same time period. Of course a decent model of the “Pooch” may be tough to chase down at a reasonable price.
I have ridden both the San Francisco Zephyr (1976) and the California Zehpyr (1990). The west bound CZ in the summer of 1990 had 17 cars as I recall. This train had the following:
4 F40PH’s
3 MHC’s
1 baggage
1 Ex-El Capitan bilevel transition coach/dorm
11 Superliner cars including 1 diner and 1 lounge
1 Ex-El Capitan bilevel diner at the tail end of the train.
So the above train had two diners to handle the extra high summer passenger volume accross the Rockies west of Denver. I didn’t ever check at the time the type of Superliners in the train tho. We ended up stopped in the desert west of Grand Junction with a wheel problem on the baggage car if I recall correctly. That was the west bound CZ. The East bound CZ was a little shorter - in California I think we only had 5 Superliner cars and of course the other cars were added in Denver (I think the Pioneer and Desert Wind were still combined there in 1990). We had only 2 F40PH’s but Rio Granded added a pilot GP40 on the front of the train #3113.
As for Pooches, I have never seen a photo of one of those on a California Zephyr, ever. It is my understanding that the Pooches were used on the Flordia Auto Train for a period of time - whatever else I don’t know.
Did they do the Pioneer different in the 1980s than they did in the 90s? Because in the 1990s the Pioneer was broken out of the Zephyr in Denver and sent north through Wyoming. The westbound CZ didn’t have any of the Pioneer cars in it.
I only ever saw one, once. It might have been emergency substitution power.
I do recall at some point the Pioneer was taken off of the CZ in Denver rather than SLC. So at some point, the CZ west of Denver would have been shorter owing to the lack of the Pioneer in its consists. Here is a write up by Tommy Batts on the Desert Wind (which died the same year as the Pioneer):
[quote]
Early equipment on the Desert Wind was usually a consist of 4 Amfleet Coaches, an AmDinette and a baggage car. By the end of 1980, Superliner equipment had been introduced and as soon as enough became available to equip the Desert Wind and Pioneer, they were both extended all the way to Chicago.
When so was done, the Wind combined with the California Zephyr at Salt Lake City, and the Pioneer joined the consist at Denver, CO. In early 1983, the Denver and Rio Grande “joined” or partnered with Amtrak to enable the route between Salt Lake and Denver to be entirely on DRGW trackage. It was not until April 24, 1983 that the San Franscisco Zephyr became officially renamed the California Zephyr. Unfortunately, a major flood damaged much of the DRGW line and the rerouting was delayed until July 16. Finally on that day in Denver, a christening took place at Denver Union Station. Mrs James Bauman christened a bottle of champagne over the locomotives pilot. Mrs Bauman also served as a commentator and guide on the scenic highlights of the reroute.<
Here is some specific info that was posted on the Rio Grande Yahoo Groups Email list:
The consist of the California Zephyr circa 1989 was as follows:
1 F40 CHI-SLC
2 F40 "f_
2 MHC CHI-OAK
1 Baggage CHI-OAK
1 Transition Hi-Level (ex-ATSF) coach/dorm CHI-OAK
1 Sleeping Car CHI-OAK
1 Coach/baggage CHI-OAK
1 Coach CHI-OAK
1 Lounge CHI-OAK
1 Dining Car CHI-OAK
1 Coach/baggage CHI-SEA via the Pioneer # 25/26 at SLC
1 Coach CHI-SEA via the Pioneer # 25/26 at SLC
1 Sleeping Car CHI-SEA via the Pionee¤h_
1 Coach/baggage CHI-LAX via the Desert Wind # 35/36 at SLC
1 Coach CHI-LAX via the Desert Wind # 35/36 at SLC
1 Sleeping Car CHI-LAX via the Desert Wind # 35/36 at SLC
1 Hi-Level (ex-ATSF) diner/lounge DEN/LAX via the Desert Wind # 35/36
at
SLCThe rear diner/lounge ran through from LAX to DEN during the summer to
accommodate high numbers of passengers requiring food service. At other
times, this car operated SLC to LAX. The food service c´j_
Pioneer, operated SLC to SEA.
Amtrak car types:
M: MHC - Material Handling Car
B: Bagagge, hertiage car
H: ex-ATSF Hi-Level
C: Coach, long distance car with 62 seats upstairs and 15 seats
downstairs
S: Sleeping Car, 10 economy and 5 deluxe bedrooms upstairs and 4
economy and 2 special bedrooms downstairs for a total of 44 people
CL: Cafe Lounge, 22 fixed seats, 12 single rotating seats, and 8
double rotating seats
D: Diner or Dining Car, 18 booths (72 people) with mâitr d’ and
waiters’ area in center, lower level is kitchen
C/B: Coach/Bagagge, can be anywhere in consist, 78 passengers plus
bags, first considered to be a short distance car, but was seen on the
Zephyr by the late 1980s.
A: Amfleet
T: Transition Car
Sorry. I actually meant to say F40, but being as tired as I was when I wrote the reply the other morning I’m surprised I got as much right as I did…
Tracklayer