We are at the point of finishing up our layout… all that’s left is adding the ground foam, dirt, etc (we used Kato track, so we didn’t have to ballast the track).
We’re having alot of trouble getting the scenery stuff to “stick” to our layout. We’re using Woodland Scenics “Scenic Cement”.
Problems…
not much seems to “stick”
the sprayer we use seems to blow everything around before the adhesive hits it
Our sprayer seems to do a stream more than a “mist”…and we’ve tried a couple of sprayers (is the adhesive doing this?)
I’ve read here that for the ballast it’s best to “wet” the ballast with alchol, wet water, etc before applying the adhesive… do we need to do that with the ground cover stuff too? Advice on technique? (spray, vs ???)
We’re sort of stuck, and look forward to any advice on how to get through the scenicking part!
Are you diluting the Scenic Cement? If so, you may be diluting it too much. Try a different glue. White or yellow glue works well diluted 50% or more. Dilute the glue with alcohol and make sure it is well mixed. Liquid dish detergent may also help. You may also alter your technique by spraying adhesive first, then applying your ground cover.
Many sprayers will not produce a fine enough mist, especially those that were made for household cleaning products. Try a spray bottle that was designed for hair spray. They usually have a finer mist. The hair spray can also be used as an adhesive without diluting it.
See #2 above and yes, it’s possible that the adhesive is not working properly, especially if it is old.
Many modelers use cheap latex paint to cover their ground, then sprinkle ground cover on the wet paint. Additional ground cover can be added later with the spray technique.
Experiment with your adhesives, dilution ratios and spray bottles. Eventually, you will find a procedure that works well for you.
I have had some luck with hairspray. Most recommend superhold in a pump bottle. I have good luck with a spray can if I stay far enough away to not blow things all around. A fine spray which is good always means higher pressure which is not. You need to find your compromise.
Also, you need to keep the nozel clean in all cases. With water based glue, soaking in hot water for an hour usually cleans it out.
We’re using the WS scenic cement undiluted, and we’re spraying the layout first, then sprinkling the landscaping\foam on top of that. It appears that the WS adhesive straight out of the container is pretty runny… so when I brushed it on for the first layer of secnicking, it sort of ran everywhere.
When we tried to brush on more adhesive (after the first layer dried), alot of he scenery from the first application brushed off… (we tried this when the pump bottle idea didn’t work too well).
Maybe I’m confused, but you guys are suggesting that actual hairspray will work as an adhesive?
Also, it wasn’t clear if you guys are suggesting that we hit the scenery with some “wet water” or something before applying the adhesive (?)
There are several ways. I use two methods. If it’s at the beginning, I paint the base (whether it’s foam or other) and add ground cover while the paint is wet. Otherwise, I “paint” on a mixture of 50% white glue and 50% wtaer, to which I add the ground cover. When everything dries and I need to add more, just sprinkle on the ground cover, mist with wet water, and add diluted white glue (I use about a 3-to-1 mixture of water to glue). I rarely spray, I usually drizzle on using an old white glue container filled with my diluted solution. I often have a problem with spray bottles not misting properly, similarly to what you stated.
Good luck, Ron K.
Wet Water first helps some. It is worth the effort though I tend to forget. Hairspray is my favorite. The cheapest is the best, Super hold or more us best. Need to be careful not to get it on plastic buildings or acitone based paint. It does not affect acrylic paint. I spray it on first, and then sometimes after.
I had similar trouble with the squirter - a squiter that can deliver more of a mist is ideal. I usually either put the grass directly on the wet paint (as described above) or use a bru***o spread a mix of diluted Elmer’s white glue or acrylic matte medium then put the grass on. After that you can mist on more ‘wet water’ (water with a little alcohol in it) and then spray on some Scenic Cement / glue / matte medium.
Is your base plywood, foam, or plaster. If it is bare plywood, the adhesive my not be gripping the surface. That is why I always paint my base with earth colored latex and sprinkle on the base layer of ground cover. This gives the surface a texture that subsequent layers can adhere to. It works like a primer coat of paint.
grab a gallon of white glue from home depot for about $11, mix some 50/50 with water and “paint” it on the base, sprinkle your first layer into this wet glue mix, most will stick if it comes in contact with the glue. buy a garden spray bottle, usually in packs of 3 for $1 at your local dollar store and mix the glue approx 20%glue 80%water (also add a couple of squirts of dish washing liquid to the mix, this will break the surface tension of the liquid and stop it beading up when sprayed), this will achieve a finer spray, the “jet effect” is caused by the glue being too thick for the nozzle.
Once the first layer is dry , spray with the 20/80 to secure any stray scenery, and add more foam where necessary, saturate the scenery well, it may take two days to dry but it will hold firm, If its a large area or you mask off track and such you can spray up ward to get a "rain " effect and the spray will not disturb any loose scenery as opposed to spraying on directly.
A 20/80% mix will hold most ground cover secure, I even dilute to 10/90 for some of mine and it stayed put, (my layout was stored vertically when not in use)
From what I understand the WS cement is just diluted Matte Medium, and expensive.
Cheap hairspray is a good idea. I hadn’t thought about using it before this post but if it turns your hair to rock it should be able to hold ground foam. Then you can use the empty bottle when it’s gone.
About the spray from your bottle, check the settings. The WS sprayer has a mist, and stream setting. I also found that depending on the adhesive being sprayed; WS Scenic Cement, or white glue mixture, how hard you squeeze the trigger can affect how it disperses from the nozzle as well. As stated above, wet the area with the adhesive, then sprinkle on your scenery. If you’re putting down finely ground foam or turf, one instance of srpinkling over wet glue is all you need. A coarser scenery material will need to be sprayed with “wet water”, then with adhesive once again for a firm hold.
I will advise from my own findings, that if you are using Lichen for bushes, or on trees, spray them with adhesive after a few days of being glued down (either to the layout or a tree armature). The Lichen will otherwise dry out and crumble if you accidently brush it with your hand or arm.
I have used white glue mixed 50/50 with water, brushed on with about a 1 1/2" cheap paintbrush and sprinkle on the ground foam. I have even used the white glue full strength brushed on vertical surfaces to prevent running. Of course, this was after I painted the plaster and let the paint dry before sprinkling ground foam. I used super el cheapo super hold hairspray for tree making.
nik n’ dad, I had the same problems with a sprayer 12 years ago. I bit the bullet and bought Woodland Scenics spray bottle and never had a problem after that. May sound funny or weird but it’s true. BTW, how do you like the Kato unitrack? I want to use it on my new layout and I see that you have it on yours.