I have added a FasTrack Operating Track Section 6-12054 to my layout to operate a milk car and log car.
When I connect, per instructions, for powering through track power, everything operates. However, getting the cars centered, then shifting engine into neutral, and then adjusting track power output to operate the finicky milkman and log car can be more complicated then having the power to the operating track be constant and independent of the track power.
There is an alternate wiring plan…Lionel Instruction sheet 71-2054-251 dated 1/06 (online @ lionel.com)
“Connecting the operating Track Section to a separate accessory power supply.”
Here is my problem/question…
When I wire per the instructions to the constant voltage output (on a CW-80 transformer), the constant output power is also applied to the track… just plugging in the transformer, with power handle off, the train still speeds off. What am i doing wrong? There is no mention of any other requirements… do i need to isolate/insulate? If so, what rails? where?
I have the same problem you do…
The new operating accessory track is made incorrectly. The rails for the sliding shoes are not made high enough to contact the hot shoes.
I have (2) Christmas Present Dump Cars, and the instructions say to use a tubular UCS.
Kurt
Kurt,
I’m not having any problems with contacts and actuating the mechanisms, just in trying to isolate the operating power from the track power. Are you wired directly into tack power or accessory power?
thanks for reply
sweeneyps,
I would bet that you have an old (pre-revision) version of the CW80 and have encountered the “Common Ground” issue. Try this: change nothing except swap BOTH sets of leads up for down and vice-versa: that is on BOTH the track and “Accessory” sides of the transformer, unhook whatever lead currently goes to the orange post and hook it to the black one below it, and hook whatever is hooked to black up to the orange above, and follow the instructions.
Please let the forum know whether this works. Also, please provide the date of manufacture of your CW80 from the bottom of the transformer. It may say something like “Made in China” followed by a four digit numeric or a 5 digit alpha-numeric.
If the accessory now works, you will likely find that the whistle and bell buttons are reversed. You will just have to re-label them and live with it unless you want to crack open the case (not easy) and re-wire the innards.
bf,
the CW-80 is marked 0305 on the bottom. assume that means 03/05?
do you know when the new version began production?
I have another CW-80 that is marked 0106. Would 01/06 be post revision?
I will try as you suggested, unless you think swapping the cw’s would work?
thanks for your help,
Patrick Sweeney
Your CW-80’s(both) are wired backwards from the factory, not the track section. AND it was intentional. Just switch your connections from the top posts to the bottoms & the bottoms to the tops and you will be back in business. The whistle & horn buttons will be switched, though.
Rob
sweeneyps,
The addendum to the instructions should be the one to follow. (71-2054-251) Evidently you are aware of this extra page. I concur with ADCX Rob that both of your CW80’s are likely to be pre-revision versions and that you will have to use posts A and B as “common” and connect them to the outside rails; and U-under-A as power to the center rail of the track; and U-under-B as Aux power to the Operating Track Section, after disconnecting the wire from the center rail of the Operating Track Section per the instructions.
The idea here is to disconnect the operating track mechanism from the ordinary track power (center rail) and re-connect it to the Aux power from the “Accessory” side of the transformer. I think that your problem is caused by the wrong posts being used as “common ground” and the power from the accessory side feeding back into the center rail.
That would be a direct consequence of your observation “…the constant output power is also applied to the track… just plugging in the transformer, with power handle off, the train still speeds off.” Exactly so! The early CW80’s were all wired-backwards at the factory, and that factory-defect is the root cause of the problem.
If you were to search for CW80 on this forum, you would find numerous posts where owners state they have an old (pre-revision) CW80 that has never given them any problem; and they refuse to believe that it is defective. For what they have tried to do (run a simple train around a simple track) the old CW80’s will do just fine, but as soon as they try to do what you are trying to do, the defect (which has been there all along) rears its ugly head and bites them in the fanny. It is at that point that the hook-up workaround, as suggested by ADCX and me, becomes necessary.
bf and Rob,
thanks for advice…i will rewire tmrw (right now it’s half time of patriots/giants)
I’ll let you know the results.
again, thank,
pat
ok… I reversed the power and ground connections on BOTH the track and accessory posts on my CW-80, 03/05 vintage, just as bf and Rob had instructed me. It works!
I am now able to pull the milk car and log car onto the operating track (6-12054), throttle the train down to stop, and power the operating track to unload milk and logs WITHOUT making sure the engine is in neutral or adjusting the throttle to achieve proper operation voltage. Thank you for explaining how to work around this lionel defect.
While i was at it, I also hooked up this setup to my other CW-80, dated 0106 (01/06), hoping that this one would be correctly wired… It was not…it had the same “runaway train” syndrome… so it would seem the revision was done sometime AFTER 01/06.
Now my only frustration is with Lionel for making me reverse my connections after running 250’ or so of color coded wire under my table. Not too happy about all my ground wire being red. I’m now going to check out other message threads to research transformers…MRC Dual is my leading candidate.
This message board is great. I just joined it yesterday, posed a problem that no Lionel literature explained, and in about two hours received the solution.
Thank you
patrick sweeney
It’s not your wiring that is backward, it is the transformer. I’m guessing that the red wires you mentioned are to your center rails. The wires to your outside rails (of whatever color) are still your layout common. They’re just connected to the red terminals of your CW80.
bob,
you are right. what I meant to say is, after running all the wiring color coded, it bugs me to hook up the red line to what is marked as ground on the transformer.
pat
Well, you could open it up and swap the terminals. Or…paint them…
sweeneyps
Patrick,
Happy to have been of help. The first revised CW80’s had dates around March of 2006 as I recall. There have been several lengthy threads on this subject and at least one poll. It seems that no one has yet found an example where a REVISED one didn’t have a “G” prefix to the date code, or where one with a “G” was an non-revised one. (To search the archives on this forum use CW80 without the hyphen as the keyword. Reams have been written.)
If I understand your newest issue, couldn’t you just paint, tape or otherwise mark your transformer posts in the reverse colors and leave the layout wiring alone? That’s what I have done with mine. Also you may want to re-label your whistle/horn and bell buttons. Early on someone (it may have been Rob) suggested a Dymo labeling device that produces white lettering on a black background. The tapes are self-adhesive and actually look pretty good.
I seriously doubt that Lionel will do anything about your older CW owing to its being long out of warranty* but they MIGHT replace the newer one. I’d call Customer Service at Lionel and give it a try. Hustle!
*Others may tell you different, but in my experience Lionel has never publicly acknowledged that the original ones were defective; apparently on the theory that if it could push a train around a track, that was good enough – even if it couldn’t run certain accessories without a workaround. I tried to get them to replace my two and they refused. My best friend actually hand-carried his back to Chesterfield, as he lives just outside of Detroit. His was completely dead but also out-of-warranty and they refused to do anything about it. They did replace one of mine that was under warranty. It was an old version and unfortunately they replaced it with another old version, as that was all that was available at the time. These are facts based on personal experience and are not specul