I have been looking for a specific sand dome that appears on the Tennesse Valley Railroad Museums #610. The loco was built for the US Army in Novmeber, 1952 by Baldwin/Lima. The sand done is longer and flatter than the more standard types. It also features 2 hatches. I have included some pics:
Original pic in Army Service (you can see the sand dome i am looking for is the original one) Its originally # 610 as well…
I want to add this to a freelanced 2-8-0 (using a Bachmann Spectrum). I have my spanking brand new Precision Scale Co. catalog and the closest thing i can find is part #HO-31241 on Page 51 (in case you have the catalog). However, it has 4 hatches (instead of 2) and looks like its made for a much larger boiler. Any one have the Cal Scale HO catalog (or any others) and can see what looks close if anything or any advice etc?
The only way you’ll get a dome like this is to scratchbuild one - it’s nothing like the sandbox on a domestic US steam loco. TVR 610 was built as a USATC S-160 class, a design intended to be used on railways in Europe. As such , it was built to a very restricted loading gauge compared to US locos. The stack, domes, turret and cab were all lower and smaller than those on a domestic US engine for this reason.
My advice is to fit your 2-8-0 with a conventional sandbox, it will look much more convincing.
well, actually its not an S-160, technically its a Type-A built much later in the 50’s for the US Army with not much intention to be used in Europe. From what i can tell it spent most of its time in the US. In addition some of the S-160’s ended up in US Railroad service such as the Alaska RR which operated 12 :
I am operating on the logic that since the S-160 class alone had a construction rate of over 800 i dont think having the tooling and drawings to create another sandbox for a domestic loco would have been too hard for Alco/Baldwin. But i do appreciate the input, thanks.
The photos of the Alaskan railway locos look as if the sand and steam domes have been combined under one superstructure. Have you checked with either PSC or Cal-Scale on a sand-dome for a Lima Berkshire? If you plan on combining the two domes under one superstructure, that might be the way to go, but you’d have to file off some hatch and piping detail to represent the steam portion of the dome. It would certainly make for a distinctive looking 2-8-0.
I don’t think that it would be too difficult to cast a blank for that part in lead. Simply make an open-top rectangular mould from sheet aluminum - a piece of aluminum siding would work well (painted side out). The mould would need to be as wide and as long as the HO scale dimensions of the prototype, and as deep as the dome would be if it were a solid piece rather that a “saddle” sitting astride the boiler. Use a large, half-round mill file to remove enough material to create the “saddle”, then other suitable files to round-off the top shoulders. I’d mount it temporarily atop the boiler, then drill through the boiler and into the dome in a couple of places - this would allow you to ca a couple of lengths of brass or steel wire into the dome, then use these, inserted into the boiler holes, to help hold the dome in place, along with some ca or epoxy. You’d have to build-up the fillet where the dome meets the boiler, but this shouldn’t be too difficult using a suitable body putty or filler, and shaping it with needle files. The sand filler lids could be cut from brass or styrene, then attached with ca or epoxy.
You can buy sheet lead at plumbing supply places, or simply get some used wheel balancing weights (usually free) from a place that installs tires. Use a suitable container in which to melt the lead, and the steel clips that hold the weights to the wheel rim will float to the surface of the molten lead, where you can pick them out with pliers or an old screwdriver. Dirt and paint will also float to the surface, and should be removed before you pour the lead into the mould. A simple propane torch, like those used by plumbers, works well for the melting process.
Tom, I rather think a Berkshire dome would be way too big to fit neatly on the Bachmann 2-8-0 and give the OP the effect he’s after. Unfortunately, all of mine are packed away, or I’d drag one out and check for myself. Wayne’s suggestion for casting is probably a better one, or failing that, it would be a simple matter to laminate one up from styrene sheet, and finish it with putty.
Hmm - first time I’ve ever seen that designation. What was your source for that?
But leaving aside any discussion about the loco’s designation, it’s clearly been built to the S160 drawings, and as such has low boiler mountings and cab suited to a restricted overseas loading gauge. Notice how some of the boiler mountings on the ARR examples have been raised? And how 610 now has a taller stack, steam dome, whistle, turret and cab? It’s been modified to take advantage of the larger US loading gauge, and to make it look more like a domestic US engine, no?
I’m not sure I follow you. A loco of the size of an S160 intended for the US would not need the low sandbox - the loading gauge is much larger, so the sandbox would be built bigger to start with. That’s why the sandbox on the Bachmann engine is the size it is.
Mark, you’re probably right. But that single dome on the Alaskan Ry 2-8-0 looked AWFULLY big, and since the loco was built by Baldwin/Lima, that dome certainly had a ‘Lima’ look to it.
Well this is an interesting challenge. Coming way out of left field, don’t forget the old old soft metal parts of the Selley catalog that Bowser is still selling after all these years. Sand dome 412 certainly has the basic rectangular shape and --eyeballing totally-- seem to be about the right size too. It has some detail on the top that may actually need to be filed off (the thought of making Selley castings LESS detailed has a certain irony). Purely eyeballing it that seems to be the closest available to my eyes. And the soft metal that Selley uses would at least be easy to grind or file down to fit your boiler if need be.
Bowser itself has what it calls a “large sand dome - Illinois Central” part 70523: rectangular with two openings on top. Kinda similar to what you want. How perfect do we have to come on this?
Back in the day Kemtron had a large rectangular dome Walthers catalog # 390-2301 with four hatches on top (maybe UP prototype?). maybe way too big boiler-wise but modify-able?
Also, the list of ‘true’ S-160 survivors in the US is here. Notice that #611 is listed also owned by the TVRM, however, its production date is 1943 (#610 is 1952).
I am currently estimating the height of the sand dome to compare it to standard similar style sand boxes used by Lima. Perhaps, its not that much shorter. we will see. Thanks again for the input!
Ahh, the ever reliable and trustworthy Wikipedia - it must be true, then!
The major fault of the S160 were the three tubes used to hold up the brick arch crown in the firebox. The bolts holding these stays were found to collapse under heat tension with low water levels and with little warning, resulting in a boiler explosion.
After reading this paragraph, I’m inclined to take most of this entry with a grain of salt…
So what’s 610, a false survivor? Do you believe it was built to the specifications and drawings of something other than an S160?
Anyway, I have a GA drawing of an S160 somewhere, I’ll see if I can dig the thing out and send you the dimensions of the sandbox
Alright Mark, you can cool it with the banter (grin) ;). I understand the sources are weak. However, there is very little written on the #610 and much on the S-160 (if indeed they are 2 different classes). It does seem to me that if the Boiler of the S-160 is 5ft-10" in diameter (do you need me to convert that to cm or meters for you down under types ;)? ) then the height of #610’s sand domes must be about normal for some of the LIMA sandboxes. I would add that #610’s sand dome looks quite a bit different than any other S-160 class.
If you compare those two photos, the 610’s sandbox does indeed seem to stand taller on the boiler, but, then, so does the cab, and stack. The sandbox on 610 is also farther forward on the boiler, while the steam dome appears to be in the same location on both. If these locos are originally from the same class, it seems logical that the 610 has been modified to take advantage of a more generous loading gauge. With the air pump moved to the fireman’s side of the loco, perhaps enlarging the sandbox and moving it forward provided better weight distribution.
I think that Dave’s suggestion of Selley parts may be worth checking out, although their part #353 looks like it may be closer to what you need. Personally, I would’ve cast it myself, as I described - by now, you would have had the part and moved on to another problem. [swg]
Feel free to begin the casting process and send me your paypal account with amount due so i can send payment . I wish i would have had more time to try your process, however, i am heading back to work now after 10 days vacation (home improvement vacation that is…got to get some of that honey-do list done so i can get the basement ready for layout).
I’ve had too many vacations like that, [sigh] but I’ll offer a little advice based on personal experience: don’t retire - it’s only more of the same. [swg][(-D]
OK, here is my ‘not entirely accurate’ measurements. These are based on the loco having 56" drivers and therefore the scale of the photo works out to 1:74.67 scale using the following photo:http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=550192
Therefore:(measurements are in inches)
The sandbox is 56" Wide (not including the riveted ‘lip’ that is bolted to the boiler)
It is 14" tall from the top of the boiler to top of the sand dome.
It is 23.33" tall from the lowest point on the sanddome to the top.
I wonder how this compares to the drawings of the Lima Sandboxes (like the Berkshire ones)?
. I wish i would have had more time to try your process, however, i am heading back to work now after 10 days vacation (home improvement vacation that is…got to get some of that honey-do list done so i can get the basement ready for layout).