New Athearn Genesis Bigboy

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
21

Here’s the thing: I totally get the lack of small, accurate steam models, and I understand and can agree, but the big ones are the ones that SELL. They just do. In the era in which we now live, many “modelers” only have room for one steam engine on their roster, and for a variety of reasons (yes, size does actually matter to some) they want that engine to be a big one. Also, being an articulated, getting a big boy (at least the BLI/MTH/Athearn versions) around 24" radius curves is not much of a challenge as long as one has the horizontal clearances.

It is the big 4-8-4’s and 2-10-4’s, with their monster driver sizes, that have more issues with 24" radius curves.

Also–modern diesels are big indeed. The Genesis 2.0 UP diesel coming from Athearn next year will undoubtedly challenge some layout clearances. I can say that because I know that with larger freight cars, some of my lesser sized modern diesels are actually starting to sideswipe some freight cars on my (recently enlarged and realigned to 30" and 32") horizontal curves. There are a couple areas where I guess I got the track spacing a bit too close for the really big equipment. It’s the huge bulky radiators that stick out from the sides and can hit some longer freight cars including the auto racks and long box cars.

Plus–many of us never thought we would ever see a Big Boy back from the dea

22

John, I would not disagree with anything you said, but I would expand the question.

I don’t question the demand for Big Boys, but I do question the wisdom of three or four companies beating each other up over the same market share?

Unless someone can demonstrate that the market for Big Boys is exponentially bigger than the market for, let’s say accurate models of 4-6-2’s, (which we have very few of), it seems more money could be made figuring out what else would sell that no one else is making?

I realize that the running gear of a loco is actually the least expensive part these days, but there would still be great economy in finding locos with common driver size and wheel base and making multiple proto correct shells.

Many operations oriented modelers like myself with medium or larger layouts often buy multiple copies of the same locos. It is a realism detail. A given B&O engine terminal would have multiples of just a few loco types, no one each of a wide selection of types.

As a protolance modeler I have:

9 Spectrum 4-8-2’s

5 of my kit bashed Bachmann 2-8-2’s from 2-8-4’s

5 Spectrum 2-6-6-2

3 Spectrum 2-10-2’s

etc, etc, etc.

How many people have 9 Big Boys?

If they make more medium sized power, I will buy it.

And my locos will not be on the used market until I die…

I have about 50 steam locomotive models, I have zero Big Boys, and only 5 I would class as large articulated.

Sheldon

23

You worked retail, so you know that it’s at least partly a case of: “we KNOW the Big Boy will sell, so let’s make that!” regardless of everybody else also offering the same thing.

That’s why I made the comparison to Heritage Series engines. Some people have said that the Polar Express and the Heritage Series diesels may have “saved” the local train stores. I don’t know that I can go that far, but the ones in my area have sold a ton of Heritage engines of all flavors, totally correct models and a few foobies as well.

Manufacturers do not honestly believe, in this day and age, that small to medium steam will sell. They just do not believe it. You will see the Bowser C-415 before you see much in the way of small to medium steam (this is my personal prediction and nothing that Bowser has said; with travel baseball I haven’t even been in their store for a couple months).

Rapido of course is one exception. However, their small steam series will address pent up demand for Canadian small steam. Can you use some of those?

You and how many other people want to line up for small to medium sized “American” prototype steam? That’s the REAL question here.

How many would actually buy, not how many might buy if…fill in the caveat?

I mean no disrespect to Sheldon or other steam fans; however, we are so far beyond the end of the steam era now that it seems the market for small to medium sized steam, or most steam in general (except the few who gotta have just one steam engine) just isn’t what it was.

The Atlas Rescue Forum, of which I’m not a member, seems to be primarily HO diesel these days. There is very little steam-related discussion (other than considerable whining about the prices of both MTH’s and Athearn’s latest steam offerings). Indeed, it seems like every manufacturer has produced or is producing their very own C44-9W.

It IS true

24

I think people are not running steam much at all anymore, at least not what I have seen on actual operating layout lately.

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People HAVE steam, and those people want big awesome locomotives.

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I run steam. I have:

2 USRA 0-8-0

1 USRA Light 4-6-2

3 USRA Light 2-8-2

2 USRA Heavy 2-8-2

2 USRA Light 4-8-2

1 USRA Heavy 4-8-2

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So far I only have 1 articulated, maybe I will never have more.

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But, if I ran a modernish (1970+) diesel layout, I would probably want a Big Boy.

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I understand why they are being made.

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-Kevin

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25

Again, I understand, and even agree to a point.

But I kown aging boomers just getting started in the hobby and many of them want transition era models, late steam and early diesel.

I know I am “out of the loop”, I have never owned a model of railroad locomotive who’s prototype was manufactured after 1954. Not one, not even any 1960’s stuff. Nor do I have any interest in owning said locos.

Heritage locos? I barely know what they are…

I don’t collect, I only buy what I model. But I model on a large scale - remember my layout thread - capturing the immensity of the prototype? That’s why I have 9 of that, and 5 of these, and 10 of those…

Personally, I think BLI screwed up bigtime by not going to just a little more effort with their USRA Pacifics and Mikados - too much trouble to move a headlight or make a Delta trailing truck before you plaster “Baltimore and Ohio” on the side of a locomotive?

And then have nerve to say smaller steam does not sell? And at the prices they ask for those “generic” locos. Bachmann has done, and continues to do, a much better job in this area.

Maybe we need a poll, who owns Big Boys and how many do you own? vs Who owns Bachmann 2-8-0’s and how many do you own? For that my score is Big Boy - 0, 2-8-0 - 10.

I’ll bet Bachmann made more selling me 10 Consolidations than BLI, MTH or Athearn make on one Big Boy.

OK, I’ll go back to my world now where there were 30,000 Consolidations, 25,000 Mikados, and 25 Big Boys - even the Allegheny (which I do have one of) had more copies by a factor of more than 3…

Sheldon

26

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STRATTON AND GILLETTE:

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Bachmann 2-8-0: One, but broken/inoperative

Big Boy: None

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-Kevin

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27

What is wrong with your 2-8-0? Mine have all been great.

Sheldon

28

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It was pulling a short train on my previous layout. A truck mounting screw on one of the freight cars worked itself loose, and unthreaded to the point that it caught a crossing rail and the train slammed to an abrupt stop.

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Ever since then the 2-8-0 has clicked moving forward and pulls high amperage. It works fine in reverse. I have not investigated the problem.

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-Kevin

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29

Hi Sheldon–

I get it. I have sold BLI engines because they made a key compromise that I found to be unacceptable, that I believed would be a future maintenance nightmare (which I didn’t want to deal with) so I got out of them and sold them while reasonably “mint”. Did the same thing with the jointed MTH 4-12-2. Nice engine, but the compromise…just didn’t cut it for me even though well engineered.

I don’t have a dog in the steam arena anymore.

There are diesels that I wanted modeled for years, that finally were, but I don’t buy the models because for me those models are a let down in execution–so far as QA/QC of the average Chinese example is concerned. Instead I am trying to find the Overland Models versions which were, for me, better made.

John

30

Most manufactures might just be trying to boost sales since UP 4014 is now restored and running. Most people that don’t have one will be getting that number.

For myself i don’t own a UP Challenger or Big Boy, but i do have the following:

1× Eire 2-8-8-8-2 (one massive locomotive)

6x 4-6-2 USRA Pacific ( heavy and light)

3x MT-73 UP 4-8-2 Mountain

2x 2-6-6-2 H4

1x 2-6-6-2 H5

1x 2-8-8-4 B&O

3x Bachmann 2-10-0

2x Bachman 2-8-0

2× 2-6-0 IHC

2x 2-8-8-2 Y6 and Y3

1x 2-6-6-6 C&O (riavrossi new run)

1x 2-8-4 berkshire (bachmann)

1x 2-10-4 J1

2x 4-8-2 M1B

2x 4-60 one bowser and one bachmann

2x ATSF 4-8-4 BLI

1X NYC s1B 4-8-4 BLI

2X BLI USRA 2-8-2

That all i can think of right now. Maybe one day i add a Challenger or Big Boy

31

Kevin,

The Spectrum/Bachmann 2-8-0 is easy to work on, but I suspect your problem is very simple.

The very bottom of the loco is a plastic plate, which includes the brake shoes. Inside that plate are pickup wipers and wiring to the two wire tender plug.

The plate is easily removed with a few screws. I suspect that somehow you have some bent wipers that are clicking and binding on the drivers in forward.

Remove the plate, often the wipers can simply be straightened out, and the plate reinstalled.

Worst case, Bachmann sells that part last I checked.

Sheldon

32

Hard to say. Some more recent polls seem to indicate the new “transition era” is transition from 1st to 2nd generation diesel (1960’s and 1970’s). It’s hard to say if small steam would sell in numbers or not. There is a vocal group who want them because they would be good for smaller layouts in contrast to the huge Big Boys.

You used to be, and can always return.

I don’t see any more whining about prices than anywhere else, at least the past couple yers not so much.

Sure seems like it but I guess they are just chasing what sells. I used to overlap into wide cab era but decided to back date to caboose era since trains just don’t look “right” to me without a caboose.

33

I’m at a loss for words:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Union-Pacific-Big-Boy/254194883496?hash=item3b2f321ba8:g:2FMAAOSwQVlcrSuw

34

You have to hand it to John Rimmasch, though: it’s a useful source of revenue from foamites obsessed with the 4014 ‘phenomenon’. What’s next, bottled blowdown water? (There’s already a market for ‘high alkaline water’ although NOT the same mix of “electrolytes” as in boiler treatment!)