I was looking at the new Athearn Genesis Big Boys today and I was baffled by their price. $790 for an HO scale PLASTIC model? I think Athearn might be going overboard with their prices. If I want a really nice big boy, I can just get a BLI model for almost half the price. I can see spending that much on a brass or metal unit, but that’s way too much for a plastic model. Anyone else have other thoughts on this?
I have not seen the model, nor do I have any interest in it. I would imagine the actual selling price will be lower. As disappointed as I was in my Genesis USRA Mikados, I doubt I will ever buy another Athearn steamer.
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However, be careful, or this thread will roll into the “The Hobby Is Too Expensive” thread, never to be seen again.
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-Kevin
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Kevin,
To judge ANY recent Athearn product on the Genesis 2-8-2 is big mistake.
The Genesis 2-8-2 was made for Athearn by a company that was about to go out of business. It was not all that well engineered, even for its time, and the manufacturer left Athearn holding the bag for various defects and problems.
That manufacturer is long gone and no longer making anything for anyone.
That said, I have no interest in the steam locos they have decided to produce…
Another Big Boy, oh boy…
Not really another one, just another productiuon run, maybe with some upgrades.
But by all accounts a nice model.
Sheldon
Broadway Limited’s current retail price is $749.99, not really that different from Athearn’s latest price.
Everything gets discounted these days…
Sheldon
No dog in this hunt. http://www.athearn.com/newsletter/062819/01_GEN_4-8-8-4_BigBoy_062819.pdf
I can say that I like my Genesis FEF3, Challenger & Big Boy versions around 2012 (sound with Tsunami decoders). I don’t recall what I paid for the last purchase, the Big Boy, but I’d guess around $425 max (MBK discounted). I notice MBK’s current Genesis diesels are discounted about 15%.
So, it will be 8 years later, accounting for maybe 15% or so general price inflation. That does not explain most of the increase. But other factors such as higher inflation of Chinese labor costs, competitor pricing, even tariff considerations…can be part of the equation.
It is a shame that Samhongsa went out of business though. The 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 had problems (although my Genesis 2-8-2 is actually a great runner - lucky I guess!), but their brass models were fantastic.
I believe Athearn’s current Genesis models are made by Kader (parent company of Bachmann) using tooling developed by Sanda Kan. Those have all been great models from my understanding, and Kader does have a tendency to put the MSRP almost twice as high as the street price.
Kader does not set or control the MSRP or margin percentages on products it makes for companies like Athearn. They simply say “you want 5,000 pieces, each big boy will cost you X”.
I suspect Kader does not even tell the various brands it owns, like Bachmann USA, how to price its items. Each marketing arm knows its own markets and knows what the customary wholesale and dealer discounts are.
Yes, Bachmann, and LifeLike before Walthers, have had larger than typical margins which lead to deep discounts by large vendors.
But Athearn uses single point distribution thru its parent Horizon and while I don’t know the details of the current discount structure, I know that the difference between lowest “wholesale” and highest “dealer” prices is not as wide, or as low, as Bachmann has traditionally been.
The fact that t
I’m not in the market for a Big Boy at any price, but I have six Genesis 2-8-2s (four in-service, and two to be reworked to represent CNR prototypes) and have no complaints about them. They’re very smooth runners, and I’ve not had any problems with gear failure, despite using them in some pretty severe service.
I did modify them to improve their pulling ability, and also added pick-ups to the tenders, but other than that, they’re pretty much stock.
Wayne
My one Genesis 2-8-2 runs just fine as well. And I also added weight and balanced it.
So, apparently, not every gear cracked…
Sheldon
Kader may not tell its brands how to price things, but it seems Bachmann does follow that “really high MSRP, deep discount” policy. Which explains the most recent issue of MR. ScaleTrains “Rivet COunter” C39-8 in N scale, highly detailed, road name and number specific details, Loksound decoder, MSRP $279. Back page of same magazine, Bachmann Sound Values GP40 in N scale, only seperately applied detail is the horn, no variations from road name to road name, Econami decoder (at least it’s an actual Econami and not some really cut down one) - also $279 MSRP. No way are these anywhere near comparable quality. However, based on previous similar models, using ModelTrainStuff as the source, they tend to go for half the MSRP. ScaleTrains locos seem to have a more common 15-20% discount.
Different strokes for different folks. Set a reasonable price, with little room for steep discounting, or set a pie in the sky high price and offer huge discounts.
–Randy
It’s a numbers game. People want to think they’re getting a deal. You can tell them that a set of 4 tires is 25% off or…buy 3 tires and get the 4th tire FREE! I always wonder - if given a choice - whether consumers would pick the 2nd option just because they hear the word “free”…
9 times out 0f 10 they do. We’ve become mind numbed by the idiot box. One rack, priced at $5, another rack, priced at $10 with 50% off. Same items, guarantee the 50% off side will clear first. “But this one is on sale…” The experiment becomes even more fun when one side is priced at $4, no sale, and the other is $10, SALE 50% off!
Pricing hobby items is not really any different than any other consumer good. same ‘tricks’ to entice buyers. There may be less wiggle room in a low volume product line, but that doesn’t stop the same type of marketing from being used.
–Randy
Point remains, Even if Kader is making the Genesis Big Boy, they have no input on the MSRP or the street price.
And Athearn has single point distribution, so all dealers get the same deal for their particular volume level, and the deepest discounts are nothing like Bachmann. There is no “distributor” price from Athearn, just a bigger dealer discount for higher volume.
Sheldon
It was several years ago now that the Athearn Genesis Big Boy was at the $500 MSRP price point, and given the cost increases from China, the latest price does not surprise me one bit.
I had one of the Athearn Genesis weathered Big Boys from several years ago, and only sold it because it was a bit too weathered for my tastes. It ran great and looked great and worked very well on my (at the time) 26" min radius curves.
Given that some of BLI’s brass hybrid steamers are selling for over $1000 a couple years after their release (once generally sold out) the Genesis Big Boy seems like a good buy in comparison.
John
I found a new one on eBay for less than $600.
[eBay link removed by moderator]
Summertime, two years ago…I found Trainworld selling the DC version for $299 and free shipping. This is the Genesis version of 4014 as it will be in excursion service. Could not pass that up knowing it will be restored to service. It has proven to be a smooth runner and nicely detailed. Through the decades I’ve acquired hundreds of their locomotives and freight cars. Have no complaints or regrets.
That’s a BLI UP challenger. They go for around $400ish at MBK.
To me the primary issue isn’t the price, that will undoubtedly be discounted considerably. It is the size of it and the lack of accurate small or smaller steam locomotives. How many people or layouts really need an engine of that size? Don’t get me wrong, UP large steam is beautiful, but they are huge. Yet that is the size of engines they keep producing. It is one of the primary reason why I am moving away from steam and towards modern diesels.
Modern diesels aren’t exactly small, either.