Is it just me or do others also think that if they take 5 hours for the 182 miles on this proposed Dubuque-Chicago service, the proposers are in a world of their own if they think this service is going to have a chance. That’s 36 mph which, if memory serves me correct, was approximately the average inter-city passenger train speed about 1885. I guess history does repeat itself after all.
Those thoughts also occurred to me. An average speed of 36 mph, how long will that passenger service last? How long does it take to drive between Dubuque and Chicago? How long does it take a bus to run between Dubuque and Chicago?
By car, it’s about three hours from Dubuque to Chicago.
To the western suburbs, anyway. Getting downtown isn’t so easy anymore.
It might be a 3 hour drive from Chicago to Dubuque at midnight, but not during the day. I have made the drive probably 40 times and it all depends on the ends of the trip. Chicago can be tough, as can be west of Freeport, particularly in rainy weather. Even without bad weather, the portion from Stockton to Galena is slow, but very scenic. I would say count on 3:30 of driving time plus a stop if required.
Needless to say, 5 hours needs to be improved upon to get the Dubuque - Chicago traffic. But, the question needs to be asked…how much of the traffic will be Rockford - Chicago vs Dubuque - Chicago? Perhaps some Galena traffic for the B&B crowd staying in town.
ed
I used to do it in 2 1/2 to three. maybe 3 1/2 during rush. And that’s in a rig. Freeport is the easy part. Freeport to Stockton sucks. The rest is AWESOME driving. Especially Eagle Ridge area between Elizabeth ( which, by the way, has a CGW museum in the old depot.) and Galena. Of course I was always 83 to 87 K coming back to Chicago, taking about 4 hours. Those hills can be a [censored] when hauling a container full of logs.
But back to the topic. I don’t understand the all IC routing. There’s nothing between Chicago and Rockford (on the IC, compared to the UP, nee-CNW). If it didn’t go before, what makes them think it’ll go, now. And the UP and IC are close enough on the East side of Rockford to make a connection so as not to miss the IC depot on the West side.
Has anyone read the Chicago Trib. Amtrack and Idot are suppossedly looking into Quads and Peoria service, also. I don’t know about the Quads, but wasn’t the Peoria Rocket profitable until the end of RI?
Snagle:
You are a much better driver than I am if you can make it 2.5 hours with a truck, particularly with 57 miles of 2 lane (except for a couple of passing lanes) highway thru the hills and passing thru Stockton, Woodbine, and Elizabeth, plus Galena.
I always loved that drive west of Freeport. Great scenery for Illinois.
ed
The all-IC routing is a “quick and dirty” approach to getting the service started. It’s one railroad, no connections need to be built, and no negotiating with the Brotherhoods on more than one road regarding crew districts. There would also be minimal freight interference on this route.
I haven’t heard anything about restoring service to Peoria, but a lobbying coalition has been formed in the Quad Cities area to push for reinstating passenger service. I’m not sure that Iowa Interstate would be too happy about adding a passenger operation over their tracks, much of the route is single-track.
I read somewhere that the Iowa DOT asked to have Iowa City included into the Chicago - Quad Cities study. I thought that unusual since the IDOT (IA one) never seems that interested in passenger rail, at least if they have to actually put in any money.
The RI intercity passenger trains ended a little over a year before the final shut down. I think the Illinois subsidy ended and that killed them. I never heard that either one was profitable, but I remember hearing ridership was heavier on the Peoria train.
Jeff
The people who decided on this routing are idiots (to put it mildly). I’ve lived in the area for 12 years (well, most of my life in northern Illinois, but specifically the Rockford-Chicago corridor for 12).
The ONLY justification for ANY train in northwestern Illinois is for commuters to get from Rockford and Belvidere to “Chicagoland”, and for Chicagoans to get from the Lake to Rockford airport. The all CN/IC Iowa Division routing serves NONE of these high-ridership potentials. Here’s why:
Rockford sucks. No one really wants to live there, even the people BORN there. ALL longtime residents know that “Rockford sucks”; it’s like a happy little greeting passed between them (I lived there for ten years, and still own a house there. I know these things). The “city fathers” of Rockford have hated the Chicago area for decades; I know people who have never been east of 47 their entire lives because they’re scared of the Chicago area. For most of the 20th century Rockford tried to prop itself up as the “leader of the stateline area”, considering itself the cultural, economic and shopping capital of everything from Sun Prarie to Dubuque to LaSalle. And during the 1960s they might have had a point. But the city’s economy tanked in 1990 and has been heading nowhere but south ever since.
So what, right? This is why all of the above matters: downtown Rockford is a slum, and nothing anyone has tried for the past 15 years has made it anything but a slum. As with all slums it’s crime-ridden. The current “plan” calls for using the existing (and long abandoned) IC station in downtown Rockford. NO ONE WILL WANT TO LEAVE THEIR CARS THERE (go across the street to the Tinker Swiss Cottage, and count the bullet holes in the sides). So any “commuter” service is doomed to fail.
The ONLY growth that Rockford’s seen is on the far east side, which is incidentally as far away from the slums as you can get. Before gasoline toppe
Orsonroy’s points look good on paper but various realities get in the way.
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Metra service to Belvidere is politically unlikely unless the General Assembly decides to include Boone County in the RTA’s service area. The Belvidere line has not seen passenger service for decades and Metra would be establishing a service from scratch, not unlike the North Central line, and that line had a co-operative freight operator.
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High-speed operation on the former MILW main began fading out even before Amtrak. It would also be a roundabout route to Dubuque by way of Savanna.
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MILW ran bus connections between Davis Jct. and Rockford prior to Amtrak. I’m not sure of the condition of the track and a bus connection would be cheaper than DMU’s.
So me who lives east of Joilet should slug it into downtown Chicago (over an hour by Metra), hoof it over to Union Station and board a train that probably takes me nowhere near where I need to be in Dubuque. I can see explaining to my boss why Dubuque was a three day trip involving two full days of travel and keeping my job when I can get there, do the job and return in the time it takes me to get there by train. There is a reason train travel isn’t practical any more.
Before Any new services starts Amtrak needs more Cars.
I think the target market, if it’s to be an Amtrak operation is early-morning from Dewbeecue to Chicago with late afternoon return. New weather-proof shelter at Alpine Rd or Perryville at Rockford with plenty of parking. No downtown Rockford Station. A connection at Genoa with ICE to Elgin, and Metra line to mid-suburban stop and then Union Station. Forget about the Rockford airport. If it’s to be all CN, have a shelter somewhere mid-suburban.
If they want to serve Peoria, I’d think BNSF to Chillicothe from Joliet would be the best way to serve it; else work something with Bloomington.
I did that route 4 days a week for three years, yea, I got pretty good at. Not saying I’m a better driver across the board, just got really good on that route. there’s not much traffic west of Freeport and it usually moves at a pretty good clip. You get out of the gas(no braking) just bfore you get to the town speed limit sign, you’ll be at just under the town speed in the middle of town. Get back into gas in town, and youll be at highway speed by the time you get out of town. Elizabeth with that corner turn and the cop patrolling near the school were the only slow spots. And the lights in Galena, which usually favored RT. 20 traffic, and you got 2 1/2 hours. Usually it’d take three, but I’ve done it in 2 1/2 many times. Coming back east loaded is another story. As far as Amtrak taking longer, they got to stop and pick up passenger’s. I didn’t have to stop for anything.
And I agree, I loved that route.
Peoria to Chi could be a paying works.Lasalle and the tri citys there would be a good service.Dont know if Iowa interstate would like that,but could get some coins from the feds to bring the road up to speed.they are doing a lot of work on the bed from Lasalle to utica…road should be good from Buerao west to the Quad citys.loved that old RI rocket
snagle:
Who did you drive for? I had a couple of trucking accounts out there…H&W was one. I really liked the town of Dubuque. Just a great river city. That IC/BN line at East Dubuque was interesting with the tunnel, crossing and bridge. I always wanted a shot of a train exiting the tunnel, but no luck.
ed
Here ya go, Ed- caught one going in once!
Hey MP, I drove for PTLI. The non-union Co. of Pennsylvania Truck Lines. Hauled containers. It later became GPI (Great Point Intermodal) around the CR-NS merger. We called the union guys Greensides because of the old 5-speed Macks they had. I had to drive those old MAcks for a year after PTL. The costumer was a (the name escapes me right now, wait until after I go sleep, then I’ll remeber it[:-^])logging company in East Dubuque at the bottom of the hill. They’re right in between the two mains at the coal transfer sight. They ship logs in 10-20 foot lengths to Japan in Westwood containers, usually via BNSF at Cicero.
I always like Dubuque, too. That why, when they got the account , I busted my bosses ball’s to get it. The hard part was getting back to BN to lifted in time to get to the container yard before they closed at five. That way I could take my 3-3 1/2 lisurily time getting to the customer. Miss your lift, and wait until 7 am to get your box, then haul ass (the 2 1/2) to East Dubuque.
Hey blhanel, great shots![tup]
OK, watch the rattlers off that hill. SW Wisconsin is home to some kind of unique wierd pigmy rattlesnake. They come down off that hill in the rain. They do bite. But they’re so small they probably won’t kill you. That tunnel is across the Mississippi from Dubuque, and Dubuque sits opposite both Illinois and Wisconsin.
Let me describe the situation. The BNSF and CN (former Illinois Central) lines join east of E. Dubuque, IL. They share BNSF (formerly IC) track west to E. Dubuque. The BNSF double track line continues north along the river ( to St. Paul) while the CN line splits off east into the tunnel. The tunnel is on a curve which brings the CN back west across the BNSF at the west portal. Then the CN line goes right on to the Mississippi River Bridge.
I went though that tunnel in the second engine at night. Headlight on the tunnel walls, crew up front backlighted. Then across the BN and the Mississippi. I’ll never forget that one.
That is just a beautiful area along the Mississippi. Lot’s 'O trains, the Mississippi River, and, for me, they’ve got a casino/dog track. I love “things and canine beings” that run on tracks.
That area is where I plan to retire to. I can watch “A lot ‘O trains, play the dogs, and go fishin’”.
Yeah, thanks for the photos. I never got lucky there. Caught some BN’s but no IC or CN’s. I have photographed CN’s across in Dubuque, also the ICE trains, which have a yard.
The drive along the river in both directions from Dubuque is quite pleasing. I have a customer up in Marquette. Havent been there in years, but that is a really nice area. Spent the night once across the river in Prairie du Chein and discovered Culvers.
That stretch along the Mississippi might be the prettiest in the Midwest.
Carl, I tend to agree with you about Dubuque being a retirement spot. Never thought about it like that, but you are probably right.
Has anyone seen or photographed the wig wags in Galena? South of US 20 on the first street west of the river…
ed