I am looking at buying a MTH Z1000 for my son’s small sized train set-I am currently using the Powermax transformer that came with the Lionel Ready to Run set but it doesn’t seem to have the power necessary to run the new dual engine I just purchased for my son. Some of the forum members suggested a new transformer about 100 watts or higher. I don’t plan on adding anymore track (I currently have a fastrack set up with an inner loop that is 40x60 with a slightly larger outer loop on a 4x8 board) since we don’t have anymore room but I am planning on adding some more accessories: signals, lights, etc. My question is, will there be any conflicts in equipment with the MTH and the Fastrack and will I still be able to use the Powermax, possibly to power just the accessories? I have no electrical experience so I’m looking for something very simple to hook up and use. Is the MTH Z1000 a easy transformer to use and will I need to purchase anything additional to get it hooked up? Thanks for any help! I’ll figure this thing out eventually!![swg]
The MTH transformer should work fine with your Lionel starter set. The powermax is perfect for accessories or another trolly loop. It should have enough power to run a dual motored can style locomotive (especially if none of the cars have lights). What makes you think it is not?
If you are not sure just try they engine. As long as the powermax makes the locomotive go you should be fine (it has circuits to prevent overloading).
If the train is slowing down on the far side of the loop try adding another power drop. Under the fastrak are “clips” that you can use as power drops. Someone here will have the radio shack part number for the connector.
If you want to add more track and cars and another engine consider another set. A 100Watt transformer is about $100. A whole new set can be had online for between $150 (THOMAS) to $300. Just make sure the new set has a more powerful transformer than the 30W powermax.
I just bought the FA dual engine Area 51 locomotive and tried running it and it has a real loud hum when running it, even when running it by itself. It will run the train however when I hit the bell button, it brings the engine to almost a stop, then starts running again when you let off the button. I wasn’t sure if it was a problem with the engine but it seems more to be a power problem so I figured I would start there and then see what that brings. I had wanted to buy a more powerful transformer anyhow since I knew I would be adding more accessories but since we are totally new to this hobby, I wanted to make sure that I wouldn’t need to order anything additional in order to get the new one.
My next question is, what is a power drop? I’ve never heard of it and is it something that I should have on my set? The engine and cars that came with the original set run fine on all sides of the track, even adding on the 2 additional cars that I recently bought.
A Z1000, as stated, will be more than enough to run your trains. The Z1000 has a fixed (14V) acessory output that you can use for most accessories. It should come with wires to connect to the track,but i’m not sure that it will plug directly into the FasTrack. They are, after all, made by MTH to interconnect with their brand of track–. Don’t worry, there’s LOTS of helpful people here, and we’ve all been thru this at one time or another— As to the power drop, as long as your engine doesn’t slow down on the far side of the loop, you won’t need to put one in yet.
Thanks for the info. I finally decided that there are times when I just need to ask questions instead of messing something up! I will be ordering the z1000 this weekend and hopefully that will solve the issues with the dual engine locomotive. If not, then at least I’ll have enough power for whatever else my son (ok, I’ll admit it, it’s for me too!) decides to add to it. Then we’ll move on to the engine issue. But that’s for another day!
Just to throw out a question on Misty’s behalf (sorry don’t mean to hi-jack your thread).
Will there by any conflicts if she purchases the Z1000 and any future plans to go with the Lionel TMCC system? I ask this because I’m planning on growing my track layout, locomotives, accessories etc. and currently have the Lionel 80w transformer. I’ve already purchased the Lionel TMCC and CAB-1 remote. So based on this do I need to stay with Lionel transformers or could I go with a Z1000 when the time comes?
Jerry
Jerry, thanks for asking that…I’ve seen all kinds of references to the TMCC system but haven’t reached that point yet. It will be interesting to see if there are any conflicts in case that is something we decide on later on down the road. First I’ll have to figure out what the heck it is!
Mistyk,
You would get a kick out of the book “Playing with Trains” by Sam Posey. The first part of the book is about Sam and his mom building a Lionel layout back in the 50’s. Or maybe I should say his mom building a layout for him. Its a fairly short book and a good read.
Good luck with your layout. Sounds like you are picking up on the basics pretty fast. After you get the transformer you may want to try your hand at some scenery. A couple really good books are available on that topic as well. Check out a hobby shop or this site for Kalambach publications.
No problem…I’m sort of at your stage now and am just thinking about the future as I add to my wish list and pull the trigger on some more purchases. The TMCC system is just awesome if your locomotive supports it. TMCC is TrainMaster Command Control. It unlocks the additional features that many of today’s locomotives and other accessories support. For instance, not only can you do bells and horn, but you can do that via remote control. Another feature includes activating the front and rear couplers. There just so much more. I’m sure if you do a search on TMCC here on this forum you’ll find more info than you care to read.
Jerry
Regarding the 0.187" quick-disconnect connectors from Radio Shack - They come 16 to a pack for $1.98 but you can only use 1/2 'cause 8 are male and you need female. Found a better deal! [:)] Advance Auto Parts have the exact same connectors in a pack of 20, all female for $2.98. The part No. at Advance is #85446.
To learn more about TMCC, you can also go to the Lionel web site but you will get really good advice here.
Good Luck and [#welcome] to the forum, Mistyk11
Lisa
Mistyk,
TMCC stands for Trainmaster Command Control. Its a control system which uses a handheld remote control. With it you can control several locos, on the same track, independently. However the locos need to be equipped with the TMCC receivers. They come already installed in the more expensive engines - $300 plus. Its a fun feature that is ussually used on more expansive layouts. It can get very expensive, very fast. If you are just starting out I would stick to a regular transformer like the z1000 you are looking at. Get a handle on the basics of wiring accessories. making scenery, add some buildings, etc. The more advanced TMCC system can come down the road if you so desire.
mistyk11,
The MTH Z1000 transformer will probably serve you well, and if your mind is made up, go for it.
Were I you, however, I would consider one of the revised Lionel CW-80’s. FasTrack and the CW-80 were designed to go together as a system. Lionel got the track right but initially botched the transformer. Within the past year Lionel has finally revised the CW-80 so that the new ones work as they were supposed to.
It has an accessory output terminals that can be easily programmed to any voltage your accessory runs best at, and will hold that setting until you want to change it. For accessories that move, or even lights that you want to set at a given brightness, this feature is very useful and is unique to the CW-80. It also has a ramp-up throttle that is alleged to be easy on the rubber tires that so many modern locomotives use for traction; and a fold-back current- limiting safety feature that eliminates the need for a circuit breaker.
Whichever transformer you buy, plan on installing a fast-blow fuse between it and the track, or check with Bob Nelson (lionelsoni) who has some interesting thoughts on the elimination of transient fluctuations (spikes) that have been known to fry the electronics in modern locos. The circuit breakers which are standard with many transformers, and even the fold-back circuit in the CW-80, primarily protect only the transformer itself; if you want to protect the electronics “downstream” from the transformer you should consider lionelsoni’s advice, even though he can’t abide the CW.
Now, everybody stand back while the forces of darkness jump all over me for even suggesting the REVISED CW-80.
By the way, in answer to your direct question, “power drops” are simply additional connections (wires) from the throttle side of the transformer to various points around the track. With a small layout of FasTrack, you are unlikely to need them, but if your trains te
Thanks to all! It’s not so much that I’m set on the Z1000, it just looks like it would be easy to set up and operate. Would the CW80 be powerful enough to run the dual engine loco, several animated train cars, including lighting and sounds and some of the accessories? If not, I still plan on keeping the powermax so I could hook up the accessories if needed. The track layout won’t be increasing for a while, until I find more room for the set up. I worry about buying something too big and frying my set up. My husband knows what you all are talking about as far as the fast blow fuse and the fluctuations in power, so at least he can help us with that.
I’ve heard that the TMCC is very handy to have. I’ll save that for when we expand in size. Now I have to decide which transformer will best suit what we have and what we plan on doing. I’m still open to opinions since I tend to do a lot (probably more than is necessary) research before I buy!
Misty, I am going out on a limb here but…
Would you ever consider a new Lionel ZW? It is about $350 but will be all the power you need for a very long time. It has the other advantage that once you add a TMCC controller ($100) you can control ALLyour engines remotely. If you think you ever might want to have a hand held remote for ALL your engines you should consider it. I waited many years before I finally broke down and purchased one and now I wished I had much earlier.
Did you purchase your new engine online? If you purchased it at a hobby shop I would try running it their store and see what happens. Or if you have a club close by, most will let you run your engine there. It sounds like it is either the transformer, a problem with with engine, and/or the engine just needs lubrication.
One other thing…When you blow the horn and it slows down, can you add more throttle and have it speed back up?
Check out these links from the FAQ link on the first page
Re: Need Advice for beginner
RE: Beginner looking for information### Re: first time train set
What transformer to use?
http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/1022084/ShowPost.aspx
Should I purchase a new or old ZW? How can I run conventional locomotives remotely using new ZW? Should I update conventional engines to command control?
http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/1022598/ShowPost.aspx#1022598
http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/1034084/ShowPost.aspx
How do I run conventional engines with DCS?
The CW-80 can easily run a dual engine train with lighted cars…allthough the engine may still slow down when you do whistle. Once you start adding accessories you might run out of power.
Only purchase a CW-80 if it is a “new” one…someone here knows how to tell from the serial number.
Jim H
Jim, I haven’t really looked at the ZW since they looked like they had a lot more power than I needed but I will take closer look. I bought the Area 51 engine on ebay but I’m going to check with one of the local service centers near me and have them take a look at it. When running the engine and activating the horn, the power to the engine stays the same but when I push the bell button, it slows way down, even if I give it more power. Someone on the board who has an area 51 engine said they had the same hum problem until they bought a bigger transformer. I also have looked at several of the links in the how to section and got some good information from them. I’ve gotten a lot of very useful information from different areas of the board!
BF has accurately summarized my opinions on the CW80 and train protection. Let me fill in some details:
My principal objection to the CW80 has to do with the upside-down wiring of its outputs, which make it unusable in many popular accessory applications unless you are willing to hook it up in a way that reverses the whistle and bell functions. Lionel has apparently recently fixed this problem. However, they seem not to admit that anything had been wrong and have given us no good way to tell the corrected transformers from the earlier ones without an electrical test. So, if you buy one, be forewarned that you might be getting new-old stock.
Another design problem is that the CW80 must be loaded with something like a lighted lockon if you expect it to be able to reverse newer locomotives. Not a show-stopper, but a nuisance.
A third problem that I have with it is the ramping of the output. This is purely a personal preference, that the output should follow the control immediately, as with the transformers I grew up with. You may love it the other way.
Another thing to watch out for is that the CW80 puts out a distinctly non-sinusoidal waveform. Some folks have reported that some non-Lionel locomotives and accessories misbehave as a result. This waveform also has the quirk that its voltage cannot be read correctly with a conventional AC voltmeter. I have posted a chart several times for correcting the meter reading to the actual (RMS) voltage.
As for protection from spikes, my advice is to use a transient voltage suppressor (TVS) across the track (or even inside the locomotive itself). The usual advice of fast-blow fuses is harmless (except to your fuse budget); but the real danger to electronics-intensive locomotives is the voltage spike that an inductive source, like a transformer, will put out when a short circuit is cleared. A derailment or other upset will probably produce a quick succession of numerous
FYI from another post RE: Calculating transformer size for layout size Reply Quote The thing that eats current is a lot of light bulbs on the layout. The typ miniature incandecents we use average about 100 ma of current each. I am currently running about 40 bulbs, which at 0.1 A each total 4 amps! Add a PW dual motor F3 (4 amps) with 5 lighted cars (another 10 bulbs - 1 amp) and you are cooking (9 amps). At an average 14 volts - this is 9x14 = 126 watts - the ZW is getting quite warm and I have not run an accessory or another train yet! Roy
One final thing…
You might want to consider one of the mail order houses (Justrains.com or Islandtrains.com) instead of Ebay. Often you can find stuff cheaper in their adds in CTT magazine than on ebay.
That said…I purchased my new ZW from Trainz on ebay for just about $300. So good deals can be had on Ebay if you are careful.
Jim H
Mistyk11,
Glad to see you are keeping an open mind. You will have a number of interesting options with a CW-80 and a PowerMax, but you would have virtually the same ones with a Z-1000 and a PowerMax. Similarly, I personally don’t think that there is any real benefit in keeping things artifically low-powered. These modern transformers are generally safe; that said, even the little ones have the potential of doing damage, as does every other electrical device in your house. But the greater the power, the greater the cost – that you can count on.
For me, the CW-80 has the distinct advantage of coming all in one casing, like the PowerMax. The Z-1000 comes in two parts, a controller and a “brick.” Lionel offered a similar “starter” set about five years ago called the BW-80, which they quickly replaced with the CW-80. Problem was, the BW’s worked and the early CW’s were quite problematic and just plain not put together correctly. It has taken Lionel an unforgivably long time to correct this, but I believe that they have finally done so.
The Z-1000 has the advantages of a bit more power and a somewhat lower cost than the CW. In addition, from what I have read, it has a history of good reliability from its inception, whereas the early CW’s were stinkaroos. If we had discussed this last year, I would have likely gone with the Z-1000. Once one knows enough to get one of the revised CW’s, however, I see them as about even, with some points going to MTH and others to the Lionel product.* Getting everything in a single case would tip the balance toward the CW-80 for me. While I try to stick to facts, this last is a matter of personal preference.
I have three MTH locomotives. My CW-80 will run two of them just fine, but will not run the third, a mid-nineties steam engine with the “PS-1” sound system. (There seems to be ongoing confusion as to exactly which of the MTH locos the CW-80 will and won’t run.) I d