Thanks guys for all the info on helping me understand ops better with the logging RR. The buildings I have out by my camp are going to be the old recycled box car type and the would unloaded right off the rail. But how was this done? Did the use the crane car to take “rail car shanties” off track? If so, were the building taken off the truck and the trucks moved aside? or were buildings, trucks and all, lifted off and just “chucked” on the ground to keep from rolling?
I’m planning on redoing most of my track plan to incorporate what I’ve learned here the past few days. I’ll keep you posted for more track plan poking. [(-D]
Look at the picture I posted. You can see the raw logs used for skids. Again, this is Western Logging. In Wisconsin, logging was done in the winter using geared tractors that pulled logs through snow. They pile up loggs at the river and in the spring they floated logs down the rivers to the mills. If you are going to do New England, your going to have to research and find out what they did.
Yep. You are going to have to do some research. As you are finding out, even though some folks have some answers, there are some that are still going to require research in BOOKS. A good book on logging will sometimes get you more information because along with the pictures, there is usually a story that goes along with them that gives you a more complete picture. (I saw you post about publications not needed, but look what is happening here.) Folks may comment about the track arrangement not being right etc., but there is not enough information on why it’s not right. Trying to explain all of that would be like writting a book here, and that isn’t practical.
I still think your best bet is startting at the library. Not a school library, but a city library. You would be surprised at the information they have.
I appreciate the advise. A trip to the library is indeed in the very near future. Everyone has provided me with very usefull info, I think, and I’ve taken to heart everything said… I have a new track plan using a lot of the ideas given here. Maybe a few tweaks… Here is the link to my photobucket…
Didn’t logging railroads tend to supply their own wood for their engines? Or was coal the prevailing fuel in your time period? I like the long switchbacks idea tho.
HEdward… If I remember correctly from my research… I have seen pictures and stories of mills in the New Hampshire area circa. 1900 where they ran on steam fueled by burning saw dust, bark, and the floating debris in the ponds. Any excess might be sent back to the camps to fuel their fires and engines up the line. I think wood was the prevailing fuel in this area because of its abundance.
The switchbacks were an idea credited to steinjr. I really like the idea too… Gets me the elevation I want in a smaller space.
The plan is improved, but I thihk I would go nuts with the switch-backs. I’m doing logging as well, but I’m maintaining a railroad interchange and logging is a branch off of it. Logging is still 75% of the layout, but the switchbacks are a once a day part of the operation.
The town yard area is still pretty funky. A passenger train coming in from the outside world requires 2 or 3 switchbacks to reach the depot. There still is nowhere for a train coming from the outside world to drop its cars and pick up outbound cars There is really no place for a train from the mill to bring cars to go to the outside world. The only runaround in town for freight trains looks to be about 3 cars long.
Just past the switch wher the lead to the staging tracks breaks from the main to the mill there needs to be two long runarounds, long being a train length, 5 to 6 feet. Breaking off of the leftmost runaround needs to be 2-3 tracks, each 2-3 ft long. Move the connection to the engine house closer to the yard.
The water tower is in the wrong place. There needs to be two or three on the layout. At least 2 need to be accessible to trains on the main track. The one in the engine service area needs to be on the lead not back on the end of spur only accesible by the turntable.
The word interchange through me. I saw his layout as an industry, not two railorads exchanging rolling stock. I have had interchange tracks on my layouts.
I’m still wondering about the coaling tower. If not for the locos from the outside world, since the logging RR supplies it’s own fuel, then for whom does this structure exist?
I see your point, but if the used wood they’d have to ship it in to the town. The geared engines bringing logs to the mill would probably use wood and the engines used to haul finished lumber to the rest of the world would use coal.
MPRR wrote: “And I’m having trouble finding info on the subject… Unless I go buy some books… Which probably in the very near future.”
IMHO, doing the research first will make the construction more enjoyable and more realistic.
There are several recent books by Bill Gove on New England logging operations:
Logging Railroads of the Saco River Valley; Logging Railroads along the Pemigewasset River: and J. E. Henry’s Logging Railroads. Each of these books contains numerous photos and each contains some track plans of sawmill areas. All have been published by Bondcliff Books. These are softbound books, so they aren’t overly expensive, but they are printed on quality glossy paper that shows the photo detail well.
Another book of interest for this area is Rails in the North Woods (1978) by Richard Allen, William Gove, Keith Maloney, and Richard Palmer. This was published by North Country Books. Although I believe it is now out of print, I have seen copies recently showing up at train shows.
I think that studying some of those old photos will not only result in a revised track plan, but also will provide dozens of ideas for the detailing of individual scenes on your railroad. Although much of lower elevations were logged out early, the books cited do have multiple examples of the later operations deeper in the mountains. Many of these lines had an interesting mix of both geared and rod engines, including some nifty saddle-tankers.
That was the plan… I already own the coaling tower from previous layout and thought I’d use it for the small steamer that works town and outside world. I agree about the town yard. I was trying to see what will fit it the area. And I’m not sure if I’ll have a passenger station. If I do, it will just be connected to outside world.
You say I need a runaround by mill area. I’ll put a LH turnout at top of wye and runaround all the way to before turnout into town area. Off the runaround I should have 2 holdings sidings for inbound/outbound to mill. That should take care of a yard for mill. I’m gonna look back into some of my old MRR mags to look at small town areas. L shape 8’ x 6’. The small service area would be for the town local 2-6-0. I know I show the service area better connected to lumber lines rather then industrial line in town. That will definatly be fixed. Not sure what I was thinking… Probably working too fast. lol
I can now sleep well again. Most of my layout is planned around what I already own as well. How the layout interacts with the rest of the world has been frequently touched on in MR.
Hmmm - how about something like this - town area is an adaptation of the basics from Ian Rice’s “Charteris, Nebraska” plan from “Small, Smart & Practical Track Plans”:
The new plan is getting there. I see some good changes Mike.
1- Since you have changed the location of the Mill and it is not connected to the town, the Mill plan is better. There would have been a lot of buildings associated with the Mill, but since it is on the peninsula, they can be imaginary off-layout buildings, like we all have. So to me, the Mill plan looks good. Not much improvement that I can see, other than what happens when two log trains come in at the same time? I think you need a place to hold one near the Mill on a passing track. Maybe a run-around / passing track at the Mill jct going around the wye.
2- Now that your town is by itself, the total track plan for it should be started over. Look at the plans in the layout contests that Space Mouse has run, and at yard & engine facility plans in any reference books you may have. You do have all of the elements there, but not arranged very efficiently for a RR.
3- Nothing wrong with using the coaling tower you have for the mainline trains. Most of the logging locos would be fueled by wood up in the woods. There would also be a stack of wood fuel at the Mill if needed. Both would have been simple stacks similar to what a modern pulpwood car carries, and would have been right beside and parallel to the tracks on the ground and would be stacked as high as the loco water/fuel deck.
4- The mainline going to your staging tracks only needs to be a single track. A double track into a small town at the end of the line is way over the top.
5- The connecting track from the Mill area might be better served if it was connected to the mainline track going to staging, but pointing into town like it is now.
For the town; I think that I would start by curving the mainline from storage to end at the lower left corner of the town bench work. Coming across that area of the layout at an angle, corner to corner as it were. Off on one side could be the yard and engine facilities, and off the other side could be the town and it’s
I am currently re-doing the town and staging right now. And it does somewhat resemble what stein wrote. First, I put a long passing siding on each side of main from mill going to town, to the right of wye. One passing is to drop inbound to mill, and one is to hold outbounds from mill. I’ll eliminate one of the tracks to staging… Saves room too. I’m gonna see if I can get that town plan like steins to fit in my space. Thanks, I’ll keep posted.
