This is my updated track plan. The logging line and lumber property would be privately owned. The town tracks would be New Hampshire RR… With the interchange lead located behind engine house. Should I connect the end of mill lead to first track in front of lumber yard? That way the engine can uncouple log cars in front of mill and continue on to lumber yard lead and back out onto turntable.? The lead out of town that ends along right edge could be a passenger station, or my wife suggested a dairy of some sort… Any ideas??? What do you all think??
What is unusual about it?? Is it all the switchbacks? Those are going up 2.5% from town into logging line. That way i can get the elevation and get staging tracks under logging on left side. Other than that, is it the town thats unusual?? I’m not the best at track design so any feedback would be great.
A train coming out of staging has no place to put is cars and there is no track to put the cars waiting to go back out to staging. You need a couple yard tracks.
I don’t see a log dump, I would put a spur on the other side of the pond to dump the logs and then have the line near the mill for cut lumber loading. For example move the lumber yard switch to the left a foot and put a left hand switch in its place with a line crossing the lead to A and then put the log dump along the "flat’ end of the pond.
Normally a lumber yard is a reatail establishment that sells lumber to the public. Why would you have a rail served lumber yard 50 yards from a lumber mill? i would make the spur to A for loading lumber on flats and in boxcars and the the spur to B to loading spindles or bark or shingles, etc.
dehusman, I’m ot following you on the topic about the yard tracks and staging. Where do you suggest yard tracks? For what industry? I haven’t completed the staging track arrangement yet. I think the train coming out of staging would come into town and drop its cars off on one of the leads through town.
About the log dump… Are you suggesting a train of log cars would come down line towards mill. Cut off towards pond and and drop logs off a trestle… Then as the mill needed logs to cut it would pull them up from the pond. Once cut and processed the 2x4’s etc… would be loaded onto flats on the spur in front of the mill… The next spur over to B would be for loading bark, sawdust, other waste… Or would it be for unloading goods and supplies for the mill… Maybe use that same track for both processes. Then from B spur, cars would be sent to interchange track behind engine house waiting to go staging… Is this where you are speaking of having a yard?
Yeah, probably the switch backs. I didn’t realize that was a grade change. (makes more sense now) It’s a little hard to tell what’s going on in the upper left hand corner. (what tracks connecting to what)
The more I look at it, the more I like it. It’s definitely original. I’ve been kicking around the idea of an On30 logging layout for a future project myself.
There’s a ton of info out there about logging and mining narrow gauge if you Google On30 or HOn3.
You have switched your industry and have 6 cars that go to the outside world. Where are you going to put them? A train comes out of staging with 7 cars for your layout. Where are you going to put them?
Yard tracks are for EVERY industry. A yard is the place you sort cars. You have some cars that will go to the mills, some cars that will go to the industries along the front edge, some cars that will go up the hills to the lumber camps. You need a place to sort them out if its only 2 tracks. Plus you will need a place to put overflow log bunks, etc. Unless you are going to run the EXACT same train every time you go up the mountain.
Where are the cars it will pick up? How will it get to the turntable to turn its engine to go back? What happens if a train of logs comes down the hill before the train from staging makes its pick up.
Not necessarily a trestle, a log dump with a jill poke.You would have logs laid perpendicular to the track and a large hinged arm that goes against the logs on the cars, as you shove the cars the arm, the jill poke pushes the logs off the cars and they roll down the logs into the pond.
You have shown the feed to the mill running along track A, so you wouldn’t dump the logs there, they would destroy the feed trestle.
I’m having difficulty commenting on your layout because I get the impression you don’t understand logging operations. I could be wrong. Granted the stuff I’ve read about is West Coast logging and from what I understand, East Coast logging died out early. There are still small logging operations around here in PA, but they’ve been truck-fed for quite some time.
Anyway, I’m not convinced by the plan, and frankly I don’t know where to start.
Well, you are definatly right that I don’t know much about logging operations… I’ve been struggling quite a bit trying to figure it out… And I’m having trouble finding info on the subject… Unless I go buy some books… Which probably in the very near future.
I do like whats going on until I hit the town/mill area. Thats where I’m struggling. Spacemouse, If you have any other ideas other then what I threw together please help. I’m absolutly will to start a new on my right side penninsula.
I like the plan you showed… Except I’m having problems incorperating onto my benchwork… Maybe I’m having tunnel vision, and can’t see the big picture…
I just can’t seem to get my line from the logging camps to mill the way it should be… Which ways the spurs should face? Where to locate log dump? Etc… I just can’t find that much on the subject. (without spending more money on books)
Here is one possible way of placing a sawmill like in that plan I found. No idea if it is a prototypical track placement - I know next to nothing about logging railroads and sawmills.
But it is seems reasonably functional in model railroad terms - you can dump logs in the river from the double ended siding, and there is a couple of tracks below the mine - one for boxcars full of planks to be picked up (or empty boxcars set out to fill with planks), and one for extra cars - logging or boxcars.
Would cost you one logging camp to fit in a fairly large mill like that. I haven’t tried to draw in the town on the right peninsula or any log camp details on the left peninsula.
Btw - Chip (SpaceMouse) knows a lot more than me about logging, I am sure. If something I suggest and something Chip suggests is at odds with each other, he is more likely than me to be right [:)]
I know that lumber as a major industry was played out in and around the 1880’s, and the lumber center moved westward to Wisconsin and Minnesota,
Now I know there were some smaller hardwood operations, so you might look for an example of a prototype that was large enough to rate rail use.
Now I could be way off here. Like I said, all my research is on western lumber operations, and only heard about eastern operations in passing. But here in PA, at least near me, lumber was not a rail product after about the late 30’s early 40’s. And then it was small time.
MPRR wants to build a logging railroad based on New Hampshire.
The resource place for logging railroads in New Hampshire seems to be the Upper Pemigawasset Historical Society in Lincoln, NH - web page http://www.logginginlincoln.com/.
I believe I have already given MPRR those links. But if he needs someone to go over there to do research at the Historical society archieves, then Lincoln, NH that is about 55 miles NW of Center Ossipee, NH, estimating driving time (by mapquest.com) of about 1 hour 20 minutes each way.
Up to MPRR if he wants to request research assistance from you, of course - this is just background information for both of you.
If you end up researching logging in New Hampshire, I hope you post a summary of what you learn to the prototype forum here.
Your track arrangement in your town is definitely lacking. I think the first thing I looked for was a runaround for the trains coming out and going back to the staging. In order for a train to do that it would have to go over onto the lumber co. tracks. Adding at least two yard tracks and a runaround track would be a great start. I would make the runaround tracks as long as the typical train that will be using it. As for the logging line, I would move the lower turnout and tail track of the switchback to the left (like in steinjr’s revision). However, I might leave the upper leg as is. The longer the run is between switchback tail tracks the better and more practical. Adding a log dump track or spur like SpaceMouse suggested would be a wise move. I’m a West coast modeler and researcher as well.
My opinions for fixing the plan as you now have it.
1- The incoming track from staging mainline should come into a longer passing track that will hold a complete train. The far right hand town track could be connected into the mainline track to staging and moved to be parallel with the track just to the left of it. This would help with switching operations in the town. 2- Sneak in another turntable lead so the mainline locos won’t have to go through the mill area to use it. 3- Put the lumber yard between the tracks of the mill and the town. 4- You do need to move one of the tracks, or bring the mill pond out to a track so that you can dump logs into the pond. 5- You could put a passenger and freight station on the curve of the new passing track. Either inside or outside, whatever will fit. 6- Yes, it may be an advantage to connect the two tracks.
OK getting to the basics of a sawmill… Your incoming log trains need access to the log pond to dump the logs. Then the locos need to take on water and return to the woods with the empty cars. If you are using steam and geared engines, they would be pointed up hill so the water would cover the boiler sheet at the cab end while on the grades, and they would not be turned. What if two trains were at the mill at the same time? You need to be able to move one around the other after it dumps its logs, or a passing siding just before the mill area for the second train to wait. The output of the mill is cut lumber. It usually gets shipped out, most of it anyway. You need a track that can load the lumber from the mill into boxcars or on flatcars, then taken to a siding to await a mainline train. Also, some logging roads had their cars on the up-hill end of the engines on the majority of the grades, to prevent runaways.
Walthers has a new book out called “A Model Railroaders guide to Logging Railroads” by Matt Coleman. It is less than $20 and should be a good choice to start with. Also, check your local library for a book called "Pi
