This is from Mike. What makes it very special is it’s in colour. ( I turned the soundtrack down to way low, interferes with the intense study if you know what I mean)
Mike commented below the link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpXnEvW0XD0
Definitely December 1937 by the movies in Times Square. Neon signs were so cool, with sharp contrast between the light and the dark background. Nowadays Times Square is almost boring to look at, to people old enough to remember neon.
I have seen a slightly later documentary on the Normandie which was clearly filmed in summer while this was equally obviously at Christmas. In that film there was similar, but shorter, colour coverage of New York. One difference was that in the summer shots there were a majority of brown coloured mens suits and jackets while in these winter shots, dark blue and dark grey predominated. Perhaps the heavier winter clothes were blue or black.
Was that a milk train behind the two NYC electrics?
Was the United States Line Leviathan still in service at that time? It was before the America, which only arrived in 1940 or so.
I thought the third funnel on the Queen Mary was a dummy but clearly it was not. The third funnel on the Normandie certainly was a dummy (because of the different spacing) but confusingly the third funnel had a steam pipe, as seen on the departure shots.
The Normandie shots show what appears to be external strapping on the hull structure at the break between black and white paint near the base of the bridge structure. I’ve seen this before but don’t quite know what it is for…
Peter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Leviathan
1914-1934
Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=773161
Oh wow, oh wow, Mom’s New York! And the images are so sharp it could have been shot last week!
Thanks so much Mike! And thanks Vince for passing it along! That film’s a treasure!
And that was Leviathan at the beginning of the film, and to my knowledge it was definately out of service and docked in Hoboken in 1937. Her last voyage would be in 1938, she’d been sold to a British scrapping firm.
When she was used as a troopship during World War One American Doughboys called her the “Levi Nathan!”
That might have been a milk train, or possibly mail or express loads.
Those Times Square signs! Absolutely amazing what they accomplished with the technology available at the time!
I hope Dave Klepper catches this one!
The video is amazing! Thanks Mike and Miningman for posting it here. I didn’t skip or fast forward the whole video, it was a 41 mins pure enjoyment. If someone asks me my thought on the New York City in the late 1930s, I would tell him that I watched a great video footage that makes me feel like I really “time traveled” NYC at that time period for 41 mins!
The footage that filmed on the Queen Mary and the SS Normandie was unexpected and dreamy. I can imagine the sound of the rhythm of the sea and the smell of the coating of the paint and the deck… Traveler speaking different languages or accents, you can fell the different atmosphere on two different top-tier liners. I wish the video was 41 hours long!
Peter, are you talking about that platform-like structure in the following pic?
The third funnel on the Normandie was a dummy. IIRC, there was a place or some large “cages” within the funnel structure to house the pets of the passenger, a clever design to handle the smell of dozen of dogs and cats. A service that people couldn’t enjoy on the Pullman Sleeper.
See if you can make out whether it’s present on the model here:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Yurkevich_Normandia_Model.jpg
as I don’t see any indication on the available drawings I have of T6.
It doesn’t seem to be present on the ‘large-scale’ commercial model of the ship, although even at this size it’s considerably smaller than N scale… [:D]
Unless that’s temporary platform rigged for painting that section of the hull I have no idea what it’s doing there, it seems to have no practical purpose.
So that’s what Vladimir Yurkevitch looked like! Did you know he was in New York when the Normandie burned in 1942? The one man who knew more about the ship than anyone, he designed it after all, and who’s assistance would have been invaluable in fighting the fire, and the Navy wouldn’t let him near it!
“We can handle this!” No you couldn’t. What a mess.
And according to John Maxtone-Graham one of the unique smells on the Queen Mary, in addition to paint, polish, and furniture wax was “…stern British antiseptic!”
Got time for a story?
About twenty-odd years ago I read an article in “Sea Classics” magazine written by a man who was an up-close witness to the Normandie fire. He was from Weehawken NJ and was senior in high school at the time. It was Boy Scouts Day at school, and all who were in the Scouts were invited to wear their Scout uniforms for the day. Being in the Sea Scouts he wore his US Navy-themed Scout uniform, as did the other Sea Scouts.
When school let out in the afternoon he and a friend saw the Normandie burning, so it was “Hey, let’s go over for a look!” They took the ferry to Manhattan and walked up to where the ship was docked, and since they looked like US Navy personnel the police let them pass the barricades! When they were up close to the ship a Navy Chief Petty Officer saw them and yelled “HEY YOU TWO! BEAR A HAND OVER HERE!”
“OK Chief!” they yelled back, and for several hours they assisted in hose and line handling, until the Chief got a good look at them and realized they were Sea Scouts! He told them &quo
More from Mike:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpXnEvW0XD0&t=9m49s
New York Central’s St. Johns Park Freight Terminal
Annnd more from Mike:
The Monel metal roof! From INCO my first love employer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpXnEvW0XD0&t=18m16s
Now this is upsetting! RIP
Annnd more from Mike:
The Monel metal roof! From INCO my first love employer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpXnEvW0XD0&t=18m16s
When I bought this house the people who lived here left this behind, and a giant Oreo cookie jar as well.
He’ll be back! He’s a tough nut to crack! [
Surry County strong with a touch of Richmond “Southern Gentleman!”
By User Nyctopterus on en.wikipedia - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=1042172
By SS_Normandie_at_sea_view.JPG: *SS_Normandie_at_sea.jpg: Vick the Vikingderivative work: Altair78 (talk)derivative work: Altair78 (talk) - SS_Normandie_at_sea_view.JPG, CC BY 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=8383521
Does the “strapping” show up in this pic or drawing?
It is best seen around 34:53 in the top left of the screen. It appears to show vertical strapping with triple rivet rows linked by horizontal rows of quaudruple rivets. Looking in the same place in the opposite direction at 37:56, the ladder like effect of vertical and horizontal rivet lines is clear.
It looks as though the horizontal lines are just rivets, but the verticals are straps.
It could be that I’m not familiar with riveted construction. These are most prominent in the transition from the bow flare to the vertical hull.
This is best seen in the view a few seconds before Mr Jones’ screen grab. He has identified a folding navigating bridge. This is, I think, seen in use in this clip, and similar devices are still in use on big cruise liners.
It could be that this shows up better on the Normandie’s hull shape than on the more conventional Queen Mary for example.
Peter
I’ve been known to have a Planters factory on my layouts from time to time.
My dad was comptroller for a catering company (way back when) and the owner and his wife travelled extensively. Legend says they never went anywhere without bringing home a pair of salt and pepper shakers. When he passed on, his wife decided it was time to shut down the catering company (Tas-Tee Catering, it’s where my mom and dad met) and told my dad to throw a lot of stuff out. Being thrifty, he took a lot of stuff home instead and put it up in the attic. Why? No idea. But anyways among all the sets of dishes, silver coffee decanters and other serving stuff were the collected sets of salt and pepper shakers. We sold about 300 sets at garage sales over about the last 5 years but I kept a few. The Mr. Peanut models were just too useful to a model railroader get rid of! [;)]
P.S. That pumper off to the left of the factory is pumping peanut oil. [swg]
These “structures”?
Exactly!
Note that they continue up onto the white painted superstructure but not further down the hull.
Peter
Those “straps,” for lack of a better term, ar probably nothing more than the riveting pattern and procedure for the dramatic compound curves on that section of Normadie’s hull, probably made more apparant by the strong sunlight and I’d guess saltwater erosion on the paint. Did you notice the rust on the anchor and hawsepipe, in addition to the paint erosion around the waterline at the bow?
It goes without saying paints available in the 1930’s weren’t anywhere near as good as those available today.
In the video at 34:53 it can be seen that the horizontal lines are just quadruple rows of rivets but the vertical lines, at least at the front, are separate straps with lines of triple rivets.
I haven’t been able to work out why this pattern of riveting is restricted to this particular area. It could be that these are above the main strength deck and are required to transfer stresses into the superstructure.
Not only did I notice the rust on the Normandie around the anchor, but noticed the equally apparent patch of fresh black paint on the Queen Mary under the anchor.
Peter
Maritime artist Ken Marschall did a fine painting of the starboard side of the Titanic, and one detail he added was rust forming on the white-painted superstructure of the ship in the area of the starboard side expansion joints.
He got a bit of grief from some Titanic buffs over that, but Ken knows his business. He got that detail from examining a photograph of Titanic in Southhampton harbor, sure enough, even on a new ship the rust was making it’s attack. As the saying goes, “Rust never sleeps!”
It was Ken’s supposition that with the rush to get the ship in service the crew hadn’t gotten around to re-painting that part of the ship, especially since it was the port side facing the dock, and that was the side that had to make the best impression on passengers, visitors, and those who came dockside just to see the new ship.
Have a look at this…
http://maritimequest.com/liners/titanic_art_page_3.htm
Scroll down to paintings three and four, and look closely, you’ll see the rust details.
By the way, painting four is my favorite of the Titanic, the power, the glory, and the promise, it’s all there.
What a beautiful ship she was!
