So, I am now gainfully employed (read: out of school) and my wife was getting annoyed with me being home with nothing to do on weekends, days off, etc. She suggested “get a hobby”… Well, I found one that I remember enjoying a few years back (like 16-20 years back) when I was a kid. So, here I am. I have been looking at posts for awhile, many questions answered, a few still to be answered, not all posted here.
First a background: I have some HO stuff (we won’t mention brand, think old, cheap, ends in co), but for now that seems to work just fine with code 100. The locos were dirty and were not functional (not a big suprise, been sitting in a basement in a box for those 16-20 years). Well, wanted to run at least a train, so got a good deal on a quality loco, so now I can run trains. Because of this, despite current lack of significant space, I will continue in HO and not scrap it for N. I was looking at staying code 100 (mainly due to compatibility with current track). First question: any strong advantage to staying with code 100 or switching to code 83 other than that I am remarkably cheap?
I am looking at doing a little early Conrail modeling (I know, early is relative term). Haven’t firmly decided on industries yet, but am trying to decide. Already was planning a 4x8, but read enough on here about limitations, decided didn’t want to do that. I am currently in an apartment, and plan to officially start the layout construction once we move in a few months. I have a few 2’x4’ panels of OSB, so am flexible. Thinking about doing a 6’x10’ layout with a 2’x6’ or so pit in the middle. While I don’t know size of room this will be going into, I do know that I have cages for some pets which are big enough to be sure that I will have room for it in my office/pet/train/storage room of the future. Any problems this kind
as for the 2’ pit size being large enough… I suggest doing a mock up of some sort with what ever you have. Don’t bother with the track yet, just find some things that will resemble your layout table and set the up on boxes, chairs, whatever is handy. Adjust the pit until you can work/walk/move without banging into the edges.
My LHS offers roughly equal amount of items in both 83 and 100. Notice I said roughly! I’ve also read somewhere that they make rail joiners to go from 83 to 100. This area would need a slight shim under the roadbed (on the 83 side) so your track does not spring.
I personaly would skip on the sectional track and go with flextrack. With sectional you’ll need some trial and error fitting to get where you wish. Flex on the other hand is…well…flexible. this route allows you to lay a 23" or 21" radius, whatever fits.
(And back to the hobby.) Is your old track brass? The newer track is nickle silver and is a whole bunch easier to maintain. Have you considered a point to point type of layout. This type is very suitable for an apartment and can be added to a larger layout as space becomes available.
I think Atlas makes sectional track in larger than 22" R.
Welcome to the forum. When I was your age, I got back into HO for about the same reasons. I did not have much money then, so I built with what I had. It was not as nice as I have now, 3 layouts and 40 years later, but it was what I could build and afford. You have to use what you have. My suggestions:
Build what you like first, for this will not the the final end product.
Build everything movable, if not portable.
Don’t ever let the good stuff go, even if you think you are quiting sometime down the future.
Don’t worry about getting it perfect, just get it up and running in a way you like. Even John Allen didn’t get it right until the third extension. Because I like sceney the best, my current layout is the first one that ever ran very well. Others will get the first one to run, and may never get to much sceney.
Atlas supposedly makes 24" radius pieces in code 83 (but not code 100) sectional track, although I have never seen it in a hobby shop.
It is probably easier to lay a smooth curve using 22" sectional track rather than flex, especially Atlas flex. Just take the time to get your eyes down at rail level and sight along the rails for even the slightest misalignment at the joints. Adjust until it’s right, then fasten the track.
On the straights and small fitter curves is where I recommend first trying flex track. One piece of flex can replace up to 4 9" straight pieces and their joints. And the flex track will give you a much smoother and better looking curve than fitting small curved pieces of sectional track.
For me, a 24" wide pit would be too narrow. I’m planning mine to be 36" wide, but then I’m a wide kind of guy. As suggested, mocking up in advance would be prudent to know if 24" is sufficient.
One question that could drive several decisions: Do you like the super-long freight cars, such as auto racks and 89ft intermodal flats? If so, you’ll need at least 30" radius curves for them to operate reliably and not yank shorter adjoining cars off the rails. That is why, when I returned to mrr 20 years ago, I never built a 4x8.
Another thing to consider: There are several excellent track planning software tools available, including XtrkCAD (available for free) and 3dPlanIt. This will not only give you better-looking drawings, they’ll help you identify potential problem spots (such as too-tight radius curves).
Code 100 is a bit more sturdy than code 83 and as you said cheaper. The cheaper part doesn’t make any sense since there is less material in it, but thats how it is.
Ducking in and out of a pit gets old really fast. If two feet wide is sufficient depends on how wide you are and if you will stay that way.
Well, Bachmann makes all sorts of larger radius in code 100 in their EZ-track line, but it is on the pre-fabricated roadbed which you already indicated you did not want. The other option I know for large radius sectional track is the Atlas code-83. They make 26" and 24".
As mentioned, code 100 is sturdier. It also requires a bit more work to disquise its size a bit. It scales out to be the very largest of rail the prototype ever used (think Pennsy 4-track main thru Horseshoe Curve)- quite a bit larger than the average. That said, it’s what I use on my layout.
Some parameters to be aware of: The average human male can reach across 2’ of layout at most, depending on the height of the layout. This gets rapidly shortened by structures and scenery that must be reached over. Choose your layout height carefully. Too high, and it becomes hard to reach up under the layout (wiring, switch machines, etc.) while sitting on the floor. Too short, same problem. A 2-foot “pit” is workable, if you’re young and limber, and don’t mind crawling under one side of the layout. I’m not, so I made a swing gate. [:D]
Be aware, the sectional track is “oft maligned” with reason. Rail joiners, while necessary, are the bane of model railroaders when it comes to electrical connectivity. You will cause yourself no end of aggravation down the line by pinching
I use Atlas Code 100 also, mostly old sectional track, (all Nickel Silver) and some flextrack.I would stay away from the longer cars, (autoracks, etc) the longest cars I run are centerbeam cars (70-odd feet) and intermodel well cars. They actually work fine, as they are built to operate on 22" raduis curves (though not well) so as long as my trackwork is good, they’ll run.
The Code 100 looks fine as long as it’as weathered, painted, and ballasted. Most of my visiters don’t even reailize the size of it! Can you?
I will look into the pit size. I was wondering about the use of a pit in the first place, but would really like some continuous running besides mild operations, so was also thinking about a liftout or a draw bridge (if I decide to get fancy). Was planning more on working the scenery, though don’t know how good (read: bad) it will look, so the modular idea will help a lot too.
I will look into flex track. Just another question, how best to cut the flex track, does a Dremmel with a cutoff wheel work, or is there a better way?
As far as soldering, I am not familiar. A number of questions are popping into my head, probably easier to just say “What do I need to have and need to know?”
Model railroading is basically imitating real life, right? I saw some pics of rails being worn down to the bottom flanges by a loco that was broken into. Apparently the kids that caused this failed to release the parking brake on the loco as well as the brakes on the connecting cars. I’ll keep looking for the pics but can’t guarantee I’ll find them.
MLR also has a tool for holding track while soldering. Besides that you will want a 35W soldering iron, one that doesn’t get too hot to help avoid melting the ties. You will also want a fine, 1/16" or less diameter solder that has a resin flux core. Also a good idea is a little tube of resin flux for cleaning the joint before soldering. Practice soldering on old rail before trying to solder good rails.
I have a 5x12 foot table layout, which is on wheels so I can move it around the room. That is to maintain peace in the household, as I share the room with the rest of the family and the big TV set. From this experience, I’ve learned that 2 1/2 feet is the maximum “reach distance” which is practical, and even then, doing work 2 1/2 feet from the edge is marginal.
If you really can devote the room to your layout, then you should consider an around-the-walls plan. For continuous running, you have the option of a loop at each end or a removeable bridge across the doorway. The bridge can be interesting as an operational element of your layout, too.
I’d get XtrakCad from www.sillub.com and start learning to use it. If you find it tough to use, try the RTS program (also free) from www.atlasrr.com instead. It’s easier, but less capable, and it’s also free. Either way, it’s a lot cheaper to make your mistakes on the screen than it is once you start fastening down track. Once you’ve settled on a methodology for design, even if it’s just pencil and paper (and there’s nothing wrong with that, either,) then you can try both a table and an around-the-walls plan, and see the virtues of each one.
For cutting track, get a Xuron Rail Nipper. It’s a hand tool, like a pair of diagonal cutting pliers, but specifically designed for cutting rails. Don’t use it for anything else but rail cutting, and it will last a long time and give you a lot of good, clean cuts.
Been awhile since I’ve posted or even logged in (6-21-06)… See a lot of new(er) names here and glad to see some of the old(er) ones as well. To your questions… Particularly track. Scrap what you have in the way of that 16-20 year old stuff. Chances are pretty good that the ties are brittle, the rail oxidized beyond recognition of anything that once resembled metal, and it’ll frustrate you beyond belief in this ‘relaxing’ hobby.
The others have given a lot of good advice. If you want to stick with code 100, that’s fine, and probably the least expensive option. Go the Flex track route though and stay away from sectional. That way, you’ll cut your potential electrical problems by at least 4 times. Spend the extra pennies and get “dcc ready” turnouts (if there’s still an option not to) as it will save you a world of headache in wiring as well.
I haven’t really updated my website lately but check it out,
Sounds like a good start. If you have a bunch of snap-track, go ahead and use it, even brass and steel. I’m doing that right now, because snap-track has one big advantage - you can change the layout easily, since it’s in small preformed pieces, and doesn’t need to be nailed down. I laid the track without nails and hooked up power with screw terminal sections, then went right to operating, and have changed the plan as I encountered design problems. When these are all gone, I am going to lay down roadbed and flex track. Use the table as an analog trackplan computer.
To clean your old track: “Tyco” tells me “Steel”, and probably you also have some brass. Clean these well before using. Rub the railhead with a softwood block saturated in Brasso. Brasso is a polishing compound and also contains a very mild abrasive, probably silica, that will remove stubborn dirt without hurting the surface. Very stubborn pitted spots left after the Brasso treatment respond well to ultrafine sandpaper (600 grit or finer) or crocus cloth.
After cleaning with Brasso, brush the rail ends with a brass brush. Then wipe with an alcohol-dampened rag and dry with a clean cloth. Replace the rail joiners with new ones. Just use NS joiners. Galvanic action will be minimal, and if anything it will only hu
That should be “rosin” flux. Radio Shack also has it in tubes, Sears has a liquid version, (better for track soldering). Get a decent 40watt pencil iron ($40-$60), don’t skimp here. And practice, practice, practice.
“Xuron” brand rail cutters are the most efficient way to cut rails. You can use them to cut soft wire like brass or copper in addition to rail.
Again, everyone, thanks for the advice. I have been occasionally running the trains on my dining room table while doing good cleaning. Took the advice of using the Tyco engines. We can now remove the plural, apparently the old steam loco wasn’t a fan of functioning again, and made some of the most beautiful smoke I have seen. So, as was said, a problem is evident, and will be remedied by becoming a very nice ornamental piece.
Well my 2 cents is to use what you have. The thought is you’ll change as you gain experience and design where this/that goes on the layout or next one.
As for tools. I used the dremel for cutting track when necessary. A hot glue gun for tacking the track and cork down and running a train in minutes over the section just laid. Then a quick ballast in a few places to hold the whole thing down. I also used the sectional track for curves and soldered the joints together before placing them down. Get a ribbonrail curve gauge or two to check your work and have fun.
