To Dr D.
As a matter of interest, this is a disscussion about the NEW BUILD of Brit locomotives from the old builders plans from BITD, they are being built and engineered from the ground up and are not RESTORATION projects they are completely NEW builds which are being built by Brit steam enthusiasts and public donations.
I seem to recall with Tornado, the group that designed and built that unit did some minor engineering modifications when computer analysis indicated it would be beneficial to the overall performance of the locomotive, essentially “tweaking” the original design. I can’t recall specifically what they were - I just recall reading about it.
What will really be fascinating to monitor with two groups doing new builds of essentially identical locomotives is whether, after computer modeling is completed, they also come up with tweaks to the design that enhance operation, and if so, do the two groups come to the same conclusion!
Two 74"-drivered Mikados - they will really be something to see!
I seem to recall with Tornado, the group that designed and built that unit did some minor engineering modifications when computer analysis indicated it would be beneficial to the overall performance of the locomotive, essentially “tweaking” the original design. I can’t recall specifically what they were - I just recall reading about it.
What will really be fascinating to monitor with two groups doing new builds of essentially identical locomotives is whether, after computer modeling is completed, they also come up with tweaks to the design that enhance operation, and if so, do the two groups come to the same conclusion and do the same adjustments, or different ones!
Two 74"-drivered Mikados - they will really be something to see!
Looks like major progress across the pond on the 3 cylinder P2 Mikado…
And some excellent information at this link:
Wow, she’s really coming along. Thanks, and very impressive!
It’s interesting to note that the locomotive will be on a built-up rather than a cast frame. Was this standard practice in the UK?
Total beautiful locomotive, leave to the Brits to build a new steamer. Now just wondering how the 2102 is coming along.
Look what the NYC did with their Niagara’s. a domeless 4-8-4 that would fit thru the needed tunnels still would run 100 MPH+ produced over 6000 HP and could clear the yard on freights when needed according to what I have read. To bad not one of those beauties was saved. Can you imagine one of them at speed today or here is to hoping the group rebuilding 5051 the T1 makes it even I can not wait to see her running. .
Here is a link to some great CAD design pictures showing the proposed construction of the major components:
https://www.p2steam.com/design/
They are able to progress quickly because they are also able to incorporate “common” components already designed and used in 60163 “Tornado”.
They are going to use the same tender, as an example, and the trailing truck to accomodate a larger ashpan, as another example.
They also are going to use thicker components on the driving rods than on the original, apparently, and will be using roller bearings throughout.
Here is a P2 pickin’ ‘em up and layin’ 'em down…
Yes, the riveted and bolted steel plate frame was standard in Britain and in Europe. The British never used cast or slab bar frames, although the Germans did so from 1925. The French pretty much stayed with plate frames except for locomotives built in the USA.
The Germans developed one piece welded steel plate frames during WWII as a substitute for their rolled slab bar frames, and continued to use these after WWII.
M636C
Thank You.
NDG has some valid points. Somehow, I have the feeling that in about ten years or so, the T1 Trust will have a collection of various parts (not a complete set), no way to assemble them and no more money to do so anyway due to a decline of interest in the project.
If they were going to build a steam locomotive from scratch, they should have considered something a little smaller like a C&NW E class 4-6-2.
You could sell me on that one…
Or for a little extra oomph for the occasional excursion train with an extra coach or two, that rarest of breeds…
Quite a bit of progress on the P2 3-cylinder 2-8-2 2007 Prince of Wales - purportedly 20% complete per the embedded BBC video:
The other 2-8-2 build 2001 Cock O’ The North does not seem to be as far along as Prince of Wales but they have a nice merchandise selection with proceeds going to construction of 2001.
Tornado looking really good - Prince of Wales will be equally amazing:
The T1 Trust has a flexible planning window that goes all the way out to 30 years (which iirc was the original completion date range – things have gone much quicker than the original feasibility plan and planning review had thought – so ‘longer’ is not an issue, nor is creeping factor cost year-over-year. It is also true that general interest in a new E-class, let alone a dog like an E-4, is much less than in the T1 (for a variety of reasons I won’t rehash). To be honest they have already achieved enough in proof-of-concept with component manufacturers and fabrication to justify their existence, with no particular indication they would suffer ‘declining interest’ within the planned scope.
The problem with building something ‘smaller’ is that it will be less capable of the required kinds of operation to justify all the money spent first on it and then on its care, feeding, and boarding. I’m not sure what potential excursions a replica 400-modified Pacific would handle that couldn’t be done at least as well, probably better, by 765 or 261; more to the point, I can’t imagine any C&NW excursion activity that wouldn’t cut into the market for other big steam in the same general area – are there that many C&NW fans that would ride repeatedly on the excursions and still contribute to all the others? Much of the interest in the T1 comes from people who may like more conventional steam when they see it, but don’t have specific attraction to famous-to-railfans locomotives.
Now, if I were planning a restoration, it would be one of a couple of very specific prototypes: a Milwaukee A improved the same ways as the T1 will be, or
…and do not discount unexpected windfalls,have expanded my exploration and claims into diamonds as well as gold. Steady as she goes. Need a bit better health but claims are done and assessment work can be done with myself as a “sidewalk foreman” and digital modelling.
In the UK there weren’t very many 2-8-2s, and (as has probably been noticed re the pics of these engines in service) I believe all were considered passenger engines.
A small class of 2 - the P1 class - were “freight hogs” with 62 inch drivers - 2393 and 2394:
&nbs