Thank you, M636C! What a great site indeed to learn about LNER steam power!
The V2 Class among others were certainly prodigious with 184 in their class, being described as a 3-axle P2 - very handsome with three-coupled 74-inch drivers.
For comparison purposes:
P2
74 inch drivers - 8 coupled
43,462 lbs tractive effort
V2
74 inch drivers - 6 coupled
33,730 lbs tractive effort
I have the fifteen or so volume series by the Railway Correspondence and Travel Society on LNER locomotives, and I’m happy that the LNER website is accurate if not comprehensive. A couple of photos on the website are better than those in the books, which date back to the early 1970s (although it took more than twenty years for them to all appear).
There is a diagram of a poppet valve V2 with “Cock o’ the North” shrouding in Volume 6B (I think) of the RCTS series. More conventional ideas won out, but the V2 was definitely seen as a smaller P2. The origial Gresley swing link leading truck was replaced later by Thompson which improved the running of the V2s and one of these will be fitted to Prince of Wales.
I have a soft spot for “Green Arrow” herself. It is sad that the damaged centre connecting rod has not been replaced.
I got a nice shot of 4771 at York in mid 1975 in the early morning as it left the depot (not yet open as a museum) for the station to work a special. It was in LNER Apple Green then.
We were out along the line to photograph the special, and it appeared on time in brilliant sunshine with B1 4-6-0 1306 Mayflower leading. As the train passed we all looked at eachother in confusion. The trailing loco was not the scheduled 4771 but 4472 Flying Scotsman. Some time between the early morning shed scene and the train’s departure, Green Arrow had failed. The train looked much the same and we got a later shot on the King Edward Bridge in Newcastle.
But I have
Perhaps a V2 will be the next new build after the P2 Prince of Wales.
We’ll keep our fingers crossed!
http://www.nrm.org.uk/globalmedia/NRM_CT_936827_2.png
http://www.nrm.org.uk/img/nrm/worksphotos/Doncaster/1997-7396_DON_36_78.jpg
http://www.nrm.org.uk/globalmedia/CD051009_2.png
http://www.totnestrains.com/uploads/6/9/2/9/6929845/5552338_orig.jpg
Well, these chaps are cracking right along then!
They have over half the boiler funds raised for their P2 Mikado, are working on a home base for Tornado and Prince of Wales in Darlington, and are making plans for their third build - V4 2-6-2 3403, and a fourth build - a V3 2-6-2T.
https://www.p2steam.com/category/news/
https://www.heritagerailway.co.uk/a1-steam-locomotive-trust-to-build-a-gresley-v4-and-v3/
Here is a V4 in goods service…renumbered to 1700…68 inch drivers and 27,420 lbs tractive effort…
Several V4 2-6-2 picture links:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_V4
http://www.steamrailway.co.uk/steamnews/2016/10/5/v4-next-in-line-after-p2-and-a-v3-will-follow
https://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/after-the-p2-its-bantam-cock-and-a-gresleyv3/
Several V3 2-6-2T picture links:
https://www.lner.info/locos/V/v1v3.php
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16749798@N08/3420390509
While the V3 is a reasonable choice, there were quite a few in service, The V4 is an odd choice since there were only two. It may be that this is a Gresley vs Thompson thing, since Thompson built the class B1 4-6-0 rather than continue to develop the V4. The B1 was an entirely different design, larger and heavier but simpler and possibly more useful.
Interestingly, there were two designs of 2-6-0 that preceded the V2 and V4 and filled much the same role. The K3 was a heavy locomotive for fast freight with 5’8" wheels and was the class that introduced the Gresley conjugated valve gear, actually designed by Harry Holcroft of the South Eastern and Chatham Railway. The K3s were built from 1920 until 1937, being superseded by the V2. With 193 locomotives, the K3 was the most numerous 3 cylinder Gresley locomotive. Six smaller and lighter locomotives, class K4 were built for the West Highland line also with the Gresley three cylinder arrangement. One of these survives and was used in the early years of preservation. A K4 was rebuilt by Thompson to become a new class K1, with two cylinders, and seventy of these were built and one of those survives as well.
So the V2 and V4 had predecessors in the K3 and K4 respectively.
No K3 was preserved, and one of Gresley’s larger classes would seem to deserve recreation more than the V4…
Peter
M636C, you have the most phenomenal posts! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge base with us!
Thanks also for your sentient thoughts on the V2 class - dual purpose power - brawny tonnage maulers and fleet of foot with the varnish, all wrapped up in a classy, balanced package.
Was there perhaps commonality of some components with the P2?
In the USA we associate the 2-8-2 with freight service but in Europe the 2-8-2 was mainly a passenger engine. France, Spain and Poland had sizable stables of Mikados for passenger service. In this country designers preferred a four-wheel leading truck for high speeds but in Europe the two-wheel pony truck was often used for high speeds. Consequently, a 2-8-2 in Europe could be considered the equivalent of a 4-8-2 in the USA given that European 2-8-2s often had drivers as high as those used on the 4-8-2 type here. The 4-8-2 was not often seen in Europe.
Part of the 2-8-2 as passenger engine came from the use of Krauss-Helmholtz or later bogies, which do not have the ‘classical’ supposed drawbacks to Bissel lead trucks on express power, and a Cartazzi axle at the rear (which gives radial compliance). A good K-H on a 2-8-2 is the ‘guiding equivalent’ of a 4-6-2 but with four driven axles.
If I recall correctly, a problem with the P2 was that it had too much TE for any contemporary British consist that would fit station platforms, and lighter weight associated with ’streamlined’ high-speed stock would only make the situation more extreme. Since it was already observed that a good 4-cylinder 4-6-0 could do the work of a Pacific (until the fireman wore out!) there was little perceived need for an eight-coupled class even for dual service a la Niagara in the USA a couple of decades later.
Having just spent some time observing the ex-LS&MS grade in northeast Ohio, I am reminded of the tremendous speed that road’s master mechanics could supposedly get out of Prairies (which are the equivalent of Atlantics in the way a P2 is of a Pacific). The two-wheel high-speed Bissel was summarily eliminated on orders from New York after the LS&MS was assimilated into the Vanderbilt Borg, much as the Wilgus electric pilot trucks were just a few years later, and while I don’t particularly trust a leading Bissel over a pin-guided Adams for dynamical-stability reasons, I have no reason to trust that the Prairies on the LS&MS were dogs or even particularly unstable in high-speed service.
Just for the sake of further discussion on the merits of “dual service” locomotives…
Here is a V2 2-6-2 cracking the whip with an impressive string of coaches:
http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lner/gcrsr33.htm
Here is a V2 2-6-2 paying the bills with a goods train (scroll down):
http://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2014/01/darlington-works-1955-part-1.html
And here is V2 2-6-2 Green Arrow showing what it’s all about in 2001:
And finally, here is a site with a good collection of P2 Mikados in full cry:
Hi for give the intrusion as I am new to your list here, living on the other side ofthe pond here in the UK I thought it was time you guys knew about this
http://www.762club.com/762home.php
This LYN a Baldwin replica we have just finished building after 8 years, I hope you like her as much as we do she has been in service now for just over a fortnight and has performed very well, like most new locos we have a few minor grumbles to sort out but on the whole a grand loco.
Hopefully starting from next year we hope to extend the line she runs on from 1 mile to 5miles in the next five to Ten years.
You can keep up to date with LYN and what she is doing on here:-
Sorry for the plug, but a small group of us are looking at finding a genuine 2ft Baldwin or Alco to restoree next so they become shed mates with LYN
Hi Guys not sure if you know about this one but I like it. This is a UK Baldwin replica for the Lynton and Barnstaple Railway in North Devon.
Here are a couple of links for you to see more:-
http://www.762club.com/762home.php
Please enjoy
Lynbarn
That is one nifty 2-4-2T! And what a classy paint job! Well done, good sir! Well done indeed!
Thank you, if ever any of you guys or girls make it over here, you will always be welcome to come and say hello.
We are looking to build a couple more 2ft gauge locos in time so I will keep you all posted once the next project is announced.
Regards
Colin
V4 3401…
It appears with first the A1 4-6-2, then the P2 2-8-2, followed by a V4 2-6-2 and a V3 2-6-2T, that the A1 Trust is actually building a steam locomotive “Jurassic Park”.
By that I mean that they are bringing back to life extinct classes of steam locomotives for the enjoyment of all to see and experience.
Well done, ladies and gentlemen of the A1 Trust!
I’ve read about the Lyn in “The Railway” magazine that I buy now and then. I think I may make the trek to the L & B the next time I’m over there in April.
Hi ya you will be welcome if you want to make sure LYN is running when you come over email them at the above website with the days you are coming over and they will beable to confirm the dates and times she is working.