Well, I received my Digitrax Zephyr in the mail yesterday, and tried to operate my 2 DCC engines. The diesel works fine. I’m able to read the address, and I changed it to reflect the number painted on the side of the engine.
The steam loco is unresponsive. I get a “d nd” error from the Zephyr, which means there’s an open circuit, or no loco on the programming track. I know this is a false error, because the diesel works fine. I think there may be a problem with the decoder. So I popped off the tender top, and gave it a look. The #1 pin of the decoder doesn’t go into the #1 socket of the board. I was hoping some more experienced DCC owners could look at this picture and see what’s going on here. I did try to rotate the DCC plug, but that was unsuccessfull as well. Either way, I can’t get the #1 pin into the #1 socket hole.
Is there a blob of solder in the #1 hole on the board? Or on the #1 pin of the decoder? This would prevent the plug from fully seating. Can’t tell much from your picture other than you show it plugged in backwards, which won’t hurt anything but the loco will run the opposite direction fromt he throttle and you’d never be able to get the tender shell back on.
Is the diesel also using a Bachmann decoder, or is it a different one? The Bachmann decoders are a bit picky with programming at times.
Based on my knowledge, I would say it’s plugged in backwards as well. It seemed to be seated all the way when I was working with it yesterday. The Diesel engine is an Atlas. I got no response when I tried plugging the decoder in backwards from the way it is shown. Nothing I did gave any results beyond the “d nd” error on the Zephyr.
The vendor is offering to fix it if I mail it back. I’d be fine with that option, but if it’s something as simple as swapping a few wires, I can handle that myself.
If you put the steamer on the main line and run it as Engine #3, does it work?
Is this a sound-equipped engine, particularly QSI sound?
I’ve got a BLI Hudson with QSI sound. As many others have found, this decoder is too power-hungry for the standard programming track. (I’ve got a Lenz, but the problem is the same.) I can not program it on the programming track, and had to instead set the address on the main. I get an error message back if I try to program it on the programming track, or even read back the address or a CV value.
If it runs as Engine #3, which is the default address setting, then there’s nothing wrong with the engine. You will, however, have to program it on the main.
Incidentally, if you look at the arrangement of the wires on a standard 8-pin decoder plug, you’ll find that the track power input lines are diagonally across from each other, as are the motor drive wires. The only way to plug the decoder in “backwards” would simply reverse the polarity of each of these. Track power doesn’t matter - it’s AC-like anyway, and reversing the motor leads will just make the engine run backwards. The headlights may or may not work, depending on whether they’re LEDs or incandescents.
Thanks MisterBeasley. I think I understand you properly. If the plug was upside down when the factory soldered the wires in, it wouldn’t make a difference, except the train would run backwards.
I’ll try your advice this afternoon. The enclosed sheet of paper said it came pre-set to #3. However, being a complete newbie, I don’t know what to do on the Zephyr to dial in #3. Do I just pretend the chip’s address is 0003 and set the Zephyr to talk to 0003?
My diesel has the QSI sound, and it worked on the programming track. Thank goodness the Zypher could read the address, because the pre-set address wasn’t the same as the loco number painted on the side of the engine. I successfully reset that. Now I just press the “loco” button on the Zephyr, and press the 4 digit number and press “loco” again. That’s it.
I’m gonna try that with “0003” to see if the Bachman steamer will work, unless you tell me otherwise. I’ll also try “03” just in case it’s a 2 digit address.
I don’t have a Zephyr, but whatever you do to address any other locomotive should work.
When I get a new engine with a decoder, the first thing I do is try it on the main line as Engine #3, because all engines come that way from the factory.
When I get a new engine without a decoder, I try it on the main line as Engine #0. That’s a special case, and basically will run a DC engine. It will probably run badly, but it will run.
After I put in a decoder myself, I go first to the program track. I try to read the address from the engine, expecting to get 3. Decoders come that way from the factory, too. The advantage of the program track here is that it uses less power than the main line, so if you make a mistake and mis-wire something, you won’t burn out your decoder. Once you’re satisfied that you can read the decoder and write to it (i.e., program in the engine number) then you’re ready to try it on the main line.
Plug it in the right way, as best you can. It might not seat tight down against the board. It’s not a sound decoder, it’s that Bahcmann decoder that is essentially an old Lenz LE1000, and they are really a pain in the behind to program. If you plug it in and put it on the main and hit Loco, 3, Loco on the Zephyr it should run as address 3. What helps to program it sometimes is to add a resistor to your program track. With the Zephyr you should have the LT1 Loconet tester and a resistor. Connect that resistor across the rails of your program track and try programming the Bachmann - that may be enough to do it.
for a calculator that will give you the values for CV17 and CV18. TO program ont he main with the Zephyr (example address 1234):
Select the engine and verify that you cna control it on the present address (should be 03)
Press PROG until the display says Po for Ops Mode
Press CV, type in 17, press CV.
Type in 196, press CV-WR
Press CV, type in 18, Press CV
Type in 210, press CV-WR
Press CV, type in 29, press CV
Type in 32, press CV-WR
Press Exit.
Your loco has now been programmed to operate on address 1234. Press Loco, key in 1234, press Loco, and it should be controllable. Just key in the address you really want int he calculator I linked to get the actual values for CV17 and CV18, everything else is the same.
Thanks for the additional replies. Now I am clear on the fact that #3 means address of 3, and not some other function or whatever. Up to now, I’ve heard it said, “That engine has an address of 15.” Not, “number 15”. When I see “#” I say the word “number” in my head.
Anyway, I’m all clear. I’ll give those suggestions a try.
Bachman sent a little funny looking jumper if I wanted to remove the decoder. Somehow, I lost the damn thing in the mess on my desk at home. I’ll find it and try that as well.
Well, it ran successfully as #3. I was unable to read the address or write a new one, but that’s OK. As long as I can run it along with a different address from my diesel, I’ll be fine. Now I know the chip is good. Thanks.
SInce it runs at address 03, try what I suggetsed to change it. Every new DCC loco/decoder you get will be address 03 out of the box until you change it, so you might not want to leave anything set to address 03 if you can help it. If you have more than one loco with the same address on the track at the same time, they will all move together.
It’s time to learn “Programming on the Main.” There will be info about it in your Zephyr manual. (At least I assume that a Zephyr can do POM, right?)
Is the cab number a 2-digit or 4-digit number? (A 3-digit number counts as 4.) That may present some special problems. Take a look in the QSI manual that came with the engine. My manual had a detailed, step-by-step set of instructions for the whole procedure.
At least for QSI, and I am quite sure for others, you can used the two-digit address for addresses less than 127. Upwards, you have to configure it as a four-digit address.
It’s actually a bit more confusing than that, selector:
Digitrax: 1-127 = short address (‘2 digit’), 128-9999 = long address (‘4-digit’)
Lenz: 1-99 = short address, 100-9999 = long address
NCE: 1-127 = short address, 0001-9999 - long address (yes, 3 and 003 are distinct addresses!)
It all stems from what the different manufacturerss had at ht etime DCC was introduced,a nd how they interpreted the standards and rp’s that added the long address functionality. The original Lenz systems only had a 2-digit display, so they stopped at 99. The original Digitrax ystems ALSO had only a 2 digit display but since the DCC standard allowed values up to 127, they came up with a bastardized version of hex to allow you access to all 127 possible addresses. 1-99 worked as normal, then you has A0-A9 for 100-109, B0-B9 for 110-119, and C0-C7 for 120-127. Confusing, but it let you address 27 more locos than Lenz [:D] Moving forward, once the long address standard was developed, since it doesnot specify which addresses will be logn and which will be short, each manufacturer just extended past what htey currently could address. That means with Lenz 100 and up has to be a logn address, and with Digitrax the magic number is 128. No more hex with Digitrax, you just key int he actual number, if you want loco 123 you key in 123. And no rememebr which is long and which is short with Digitrax or Lenz, just key in the number when selecting a loco.
The problem is, if a Digitax owner programs a loco to address 123, a Lenz owner won’t be able to access it. And if an NCE user programs 0012 as a long address, neither Digitrax or Lenz users will be able to access it. One Digitrax, 123 is a short address, and CV29 is set appropriately. The decoder will not ‘listen’ for a long address, which is what the Lenz system would be putting out if you dial in address 123. And if you program 0012 on NCE ad a l
Yeesh, Randy, you have given me a headache. I suppose this is one of the reasons why so many people complain about non-NMRA compliant products and how they make the hobby more complicated than it needs to be?
Lets stay away from NMRA Compliance for now. That is a can of worms 20 years in the making.
Let’s focus on the Zephyr’s Function for locating and issuing commands to the engine on the track. If the loco is default it should answer to #3 as it’s engine number.
If 4 digit addressing gives you a headache stick with two digit. I usually use the last two of a engine cab number.
briandugas, you & I can use a 2-digit address for our # of posts. These other guys have to use 4-digit addresses. I’m gonna try to tap into some of that knowledge!
Here is a little timeline (bare with me please!):
February 6: I get some new locos at train show & go to club to run. Run good on address “03”. Reprogram MP15 (Atlas Gold Series w/ QSI sound) & GP40 (Atlas w/o sound) w/ 2 digit addresses & they run fine. Class J 611 (Bachman Spectrum w/ loksound???) would not program, but paperwork w/ it said loksound decoder may not program by some systems & may need a loksound booster in order to program. OK!
March 20: I install decoder in SD70MAC (Athearn Genesis DCC Quick-plug equipped - no sound) & try to program. Place loco on same spot on programming track as MP15 & GP40 were last month & it wouldn’t program. Keep getting “no d” when push “Set/Sel” button on Digitrax DT100 (I think it’s DT - maybe DC100 or DS100? it has 2 small knobs at top, then display screen, then 8 buttons) throttle to reprogram address. Engine lurches forward 1/4" inch or so sometimes when I hit the button (but not everytime). Keep getting “no d” several times then finally get “Good” message on throttle. Put loco on main & still runs on address “03” & not what I was trying to change address to. Back to prog. track & same thing happens (back & forth several times). Tried MP15 & GP40 (which had been programmed in the exact same spot last month) & same thing happens (“no d” - back & forth several times).
March 23: Same as above. No engine would program (“no d” - back & forth several times).
March 24: Met some guys at the club to run. Our “club DCC guy” comes in. I tell him about the problem. He says some sound en
Intermittant problems like that, especially when it worked after pushing the loco 6-8" down the track, tells me your program track and/or the wheels on the loco are dirty. If your program track isn’t also used for running, there’s a very good chance that it simply accumulates too much dust and dirt between uses. Also check the wiring between the command station and the program track. You don’t need to go crazy with #12 wire and so forth, but a 20-30 foot run of telephone wire won’t cut it either.
I think it must be the wire. This weekend, after getting the “no d”, I tried cleaning the rails with a Bright Boy. The rails look OK & the locos run fine (even at very slow speeds) so I think the wheels are OK. So I decided to “jury rig” my own programming track! I took 2 pieces of wire (I went crazy w/ #12; that’s all I could find lying around the club) & shoved them into rail joiners & taped them to hold them in place. Hooked the rail joiners to a spare piece of track & hooked up to the Programming outputs. Worked great everytime I tried to program! I was able to get the 2 locos running well together (changing CVs 2, 5, & 6). Now I’m going to work on getting CVs 3 & 4 set.
Thanx for the suggestions about the wiring!
Do you try to get all of your locos programmed so that they all run the same. Say you want to run a pair of AC4400s together. Next week you may decide to run a SD70 with one of those AC4400s. The prototype mixes & matches different locomotive types. Do you just pick one loco as your “baseline” & work on making all other locos match its performance? Or do you pick 2 or 3 locos to run as a consist, get them running the same, & leave them together?
seadoo, I dont bother matching different locos. I do expect them to work together as they are such as the BLI ABBA F set. Now getting the PRR J1 to behave nice with the M1a is a bit more challenging because the engines have a little bit of a different physical set up.
I rely on different engines for different jobs. One thing I have not yet done is hook em back to back to find out who is top puller in the roundhouse.
I don’t match individual loco’s either. However, when initially programing a loco I adjust them until they all start at throttle setting 1 and have a prototype top speed. Most locos will then MU together fairly well.
