hey all i am back with another question. i recently acquired 2 sets of norfolk and western passenger cars. (ebay!) apparently they were distributed by bachmann but made by rivarossi. there is two six car sets; one is of the powhatan arrow consist and the other is of a general consist without observation. they are all streamlined smoothside. does anyone know anything about these? are they prototypically accurate in length, height, width or road numbers? just curious. they definitely need some add on details and of course a wheel/truck change with #58’s to go with everything else i have. thanks for responding.
Are the cars coaches with an observation that is a club lounge?? The observation should be a rounded end type observation. The web sites below show the trains behind steam in the first two web sites and the last one is more recent without skirts. Thanks to Fallen flags site.
I think Bachmann had two 4 car Powhatan Arrow sets (A&B) and one 6 car Pocahontas set way back. The Riv labelled cars were all individually released. The Bachmann and Rivarossi cars, both 1920s and 1930s versions, are not prototypically accurate for N&W as to window placements, sizes, etc., and the smooth side observation is not round ended, but the length and width is right, the color is close (paint the roofs black if they are not already). (You can bash an IHC round end observation pretty easy or find an old Eastern Car Works kit) The numbering is right for coaches, diners, baggage, observations, etc. I have a bunch of these cars. I don’t know why I am such a stickler for prototype accuracy on steam engines, but I can live with reasonable representations on rolling stock, but that’s me.
All mine are packed up since the move, but I think all mine have KD conversion couplers, still truck mounted, from when I had a yard with a bunch of #4 switches and ‘S’ curves and what not, and they worked real well. I did have to add weight to a bunch of them, but doubt many are all the way up to NMRA recommendations.
There have been at least three brass 5 car Powhatan Arrow model car sets released, factory painted, with prototypical window/door arrangements (but some of the window sizes were off), but I haven’t seen any that were really any better color wise that the Rivs. Different, but still not “right”. And they were MAJOR bucks.
The Powhatan Arrow was an all reserved seat coach train and had no head end equipment at all. Only light weight equiptment was used. The consist would be about 4-6 coaches spliced by a diner with a round end tavern/observation car.
O the coaches the N&W had two were class P1 Dormitory/Coaches for crew #501-502, which can be duplicated with the Eastern Car Works Car.
There were also Class P2 Divided Section Coaches #511-512.
The final Coach Class P3 was for a standard coach #531-540.
There were four diners available #491-494, the 493 and 494 were named and were probably used on the Pochantas.
The observation cars were class P4 and numbered #581-582.
The window placement on the Rivarossi Coaches is incorrect but it is a good standin model the same would go for the Eastern Car Works car, but it is closer in that it is a PS prototype the supplier of the Powhatan Arrow Cars.
The standard paint scheme for N&W passenger cars is black roof and underbody and tuscan red sides and ends.
Congrats on wunning those auctions, I was watching to see who got them.
I have one of the sets myself. I love em! Yes they need wheels, couplers and maybe new trucks as well as interiors.
I was even thinking about getting full width diaphragms for them.
So far as I know they are pretty accurate.
As for being Rivarossi, I tell people all the time, but none would believe me that Bachmann went through Rivarossi for passenger cars.
I wish there was a dome car. I know that IHC (International Hobby Corporation) sells the Powhatan Arrows, including the dome car, but as far as I know it says Norfolk & Western and not Powhatan Arrow.
I could not even find the correct decals to put on the dome car.
The reason it does not have the Powhatan Arrow on the dome car is that the Powhatan Arrow did not have any dome cars. The N&W got its only dome car from the Wabash that used it in pooled service with the UP, the car was painted UP yellow with Wabash lettering until the pooled service ended and then was painted in the N&W scheme.
I will either use artistic license and put Powhatan Arrow on it, that is if I cab find the correct decal, or live in the real world and use the dome car as is. As soon as I get it of course.
ALL of Norfolk and Western’s passenger cars, lightweight and heavyweight, had NORFOLK AND WESTERN along the letterboard, in dulux gold (yellow). Some of the lightweight cars and both round end observations had a Powhatan Arrow logo below the windows in the center of the car. The diners and sleepers were named (for individuals, places, and colleges, and universities along the line such as Gen. William Mahone, Virginia Polytechnic Institute, etc.) Microscale, Champ, and Shell have pretty good decal sets.
The Arrow was top of the line, and the early 1949 version, pre in-service publicity shots that N&W made are what most commonly are shown/remembered. In some of these, the roofs are brown, but I have never seen a picture of the cars with green trucks as indicated on the N&W car painting guide. I do not believe the brown roofs made it into service either, because they would have needed to repaint the older cars to get things to match, I believe.
The Pocahontas and the Cavalier were pretty nice too trains too. Watching the Pokey charge out of Roanoke and up Blue Ridge with a Roanoke built J on the point on a warm summer’s afternoon was one of the “great” sights of railroading; forever lost now to history.
Obviously, I am an N&W fan. Our goose blind used to be in a little bay on the Pamunkey River, overlooked by Chief Powhatan’s burial mound. His daughter Pocahontas is one of only two Americans buried in Westminster Abbey.
Several of the Rivarossi cars are pretty close to PRR prototypes. However, with some surgery, you could kitbash them to represent anyone’s cars. Right now, I’ve cut up one of the duplex sleepers, and rearranged some windows to build a more accurate PRR PS124 sleeper. This involved cutting the sides off the sleeper, and splicing in wall sections from a Rivarossi coach. The reconfigured walls were then mounted on a Train Station Products core kit. The ECW (Bethlehem?) core kit is OK, but the TSP one is better–the underframe details aren’t molded in, so you can put them wherever you want.)
However, if you don’t want to do that, you could just run the cars “as-is.” The stock cars are pretty nice. The only reason I redid my sleeper, is I wanted a different class than what was available.
If they Union Station Products doesn’t have what you are looking for, ask them if they will make it for you. They are pretty good about that. The NKP sides are awesome. With the new laser cut core kit sides, you can build a car with brass car sides a lot
these cars come with interiors (both sets) and feel pretty heavy. they are also pretty free rolling and the metal wheels seem large. they don’t roll quite as much as well as my new spectrum heavies for example, but i was surprised. i cannot find a date on these. does anyone know when they were made? i have sets a and b. thanks to all who replied and had any info to share. this forum really is great. especially for newbies like myself.