Norfolk & Western

Model Railroader Prototype information for the modeler
1

Hey does anyone know if NW ran any low nose geeps, alcos, whatever? I noticed Athearn has GP 38s and SDs with the lose nose style. I’ve never seen any photos of the prototype with the low nose, nor any of the railroads that it merged with. So, I’m asking if Athearn took some creative liberties, or if there is some truth to it?

On another note, what color blue did NW use on its engines?
Thanks, Mike[C):-)]

2

When the N&W converted from steam, their new locos were all operated long hood forward, the idea being that, like a steamer’s boiler, the prime mover would protect the cab crew from whatever misadventure was happening around the front coupler. I do not know when they took delivery of their first low-nose unit.

There is an active N&W Historical Society which probably has that information.

3

I have photos that show that there were low nose C30-7s and SD40-2 running around in N&W paint in the mid 80’s. Here are some links:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=118854
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=118858
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=118853
The last link just has a small bit of a low hood on the left side of the photo, but it does prove that they were using low hood locos back then.

Can’t help on the blue question, I only remember seeing a few units on the dark blue, but they were so dirty it was hard to tell what the original color was. It did appear to be a very dark blue, but I really don’t know what to compare it to. Most of the time it was difficult telling if a unit was black or blue until you were pretty close. Good luck!

4

Thanks
This’ll definately expand my loco roster, since most companies dont build engines in the high nose style (at least not in N scale).

yeah, the blue appears to be a dark, royal blue. but i was ust hoping that a company made Norfolk Blue or something like that.

They also painted a couple of their C30-7s a (i think) caboose red. can anyone confirm this? they seem to match the color of their cabooses.
Mike

5

The 1964 merger brought low nose RS36s, a C420, GP30s and a GP35 from Nickel Plate and low nose C424s, U25Bs and GP35s from Wabash. I don’t think there were any more low noses purchased until the early 1970s with the SD40-2s and C30-7s as mentioned above.

6

N&W’s purchase of outstanding shares of the Illinois Terminal in 1981 brought 4 low nose GP38-2’s to their roster. They became N&W 4160-4163.

All of N&W’s U30C’s, C30-7’s & C36-7’s were purchased new with low short hoods. Some SD40-2’s in the 1600’s and all SD40-2’s in the 6100’s & 6200’s came new with low short hoods.

7

No it wasn’t a caboose red! They did paint some GE’s and EMD’s the same tuscan-like red as the passenger cars.

8

One SD40-2 and five C30-7’s came from their respective factories in tuscan paint with gold lettering.

9

Norfolk &Western, and later merger partner, Southern Railway, were noted for their high short hood units. Many of these are still in service today. I can’t be specific, but I understand that several former high short hood units have been converted to short hoods as part of over hauls performed at the former Pennsy Juniata Shops. No doubt, Athearn , and I know for certain, Walthers have taken some liberties with the short hood units. I have one of the Walthers units, a GP-9. Good little switcher though.

10

I believe the blue is close to C&O enchantment blue since that was the partner NW was talking to about merger before PC bankruptcy killed the idea.Dan

11

this is norfolkman61, on the go.
got a slight query?
how many j 4-8-4’S did the n & w own.
i make 14, could be wrong though.
information this side of the pond is scarce.
i look forward to hearing from someone.!!!

12

That’s right. 14 of 'em. 600 thru 613.

13

many thanks for the info, big jim.
all i need now is the running numbers, to the y6b’s.
rod.

14

can anyone tell me, what is the didfference between a highnose, and a shortnose?
being a brit i am confused.
rod

15

Rod,
Here is a run down from Richard Prince’s book;
Y5 - 2101 - 2119*
Y6 - 2120 to 2154
Y6a - 2155 to 2170
Y6b - 2171 to 2200**

  • Note that in the early 50’s, 19 Y5’s were rebuilt to Y6 standands (one Y5 had been destroyed in a wreck and not rebuilt) This brought the entire 2100 series of engines up to modern standards.
    ** Note that in the early 50’s the N&W invented their own type of booster valve for the 2100’s. The resulting increase in power required that their front frames be filled with lead for increased traction. Tonnage ratings were increased by 200 to 600 tons. The N&W now refered to them as “Improved” Y5 and “Improved” Y6 class and they, the 2100’s, were all rated the same.

Highnose = high short hood end / to top of body
Short or Lownose = low short hood end / body low enough for a window where the high hood used to be.

16

Shortnose (or short hood, or low nose…the low hood in front of the cab):
http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=29107
Highnose (or high short hood):
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=118827

17

many thanks big jim, it sure helped a lot.
wish we could buy books, on our favourite railroad in britain.
no such luck though.
as regards the hoods, i am now a little wiser.
take care jim,
rod

18

thanks bwilcox, those pics are fantastic.
did the sd40-2’s keep their running numbers when the merger with the southern took place.
rod.

19

As far as I know all of the road units kept their number after the Southern merger. There may have been some change to smaller or yard engines, but I don’t really keep up with them that close. The hump slugs numbers did change somewhere along the line, usually losing the first “9” of their number.
Numbers changed on some CR units after that merger.

20

As BigJim said, N&W and Southern SD40-2’s were not renumbered after the NS merger. Former Conrail SD40-2’s were numbered in the 3300 & 3400 series after the former Southern locomotives.