I tacked this on to another caboose query - but it needs a new subject line I think.
" I have another HO ‘caboose’ related question that you may be able to help me with - one of the consists I will eventually build will be a steam loco drawn ‘coal train’, say from the 1920’s-1950 era , possibly a Pennsylvania or Virginia line.
I have done limited research - I assume such a consist would have a Caboose at the back??
If so, what would be a ‘correct’ one to put on there ?[I am finding there are quite a variety of styles- Cupola, side window etc etc]
Cabooses were generally required until the mid 90’s. So you should have a caboose on your coal train. Many time coal trains that required ‘pushers’ will have a steel underframe caboose so that the caboose does not get damaged by the ‘pusher’. Bay window cabooses became popular in the 30’s(Milwaukee Road and Baltimore & Ohio come to mind). The Pennsylvania used their own cupola style cabooses. The Chesapeake & Ohio(another Virginia road)used cupola cabooses.
You’ll find that caboose designs are mostly pretty specific to particular prototypes, so to ask a question that someone can really answer, you’ll have to decide which railroad’s coal train you want to represent. Do you have a locomotive in mind for this train? If so, you’ll most likely want a caboose from the same railroad. Also, “1920s to 1950s” is a very broad span of time, and anything you can do to narrow it down would also help you get a better answer.
To add to that, it seems to me that eastern roads tended to have their capolas (for those that had capolas) toward the center of the caboose, while western roads had it more to one end. There are exceptions to this of course (There’s ALWAYS exceptions, right?), but it’s a good general rule of thumb.
Actually it was the mid 80’s that cabooses disappeared from Class-1 mainline trains…not mid-90’s…
And yes, as others have said, its very “prototype specific”…most railroads had their own unique style of cabooses during that era. ( 1920’s-1950’s)
There was the “North East Style” of steel caboose…developed by the Reading in the 20’s and also built by the Lehigh Valley and Western Maryland. (the three primary builders of this caboose style)
and also smaller counts built by L&NE, L&HR, P&WV and CNJ…
For a 1920’s - 1950’s (steam era) coal drag, that style would really only be prototypical for those specific roads…
other railroads would later recieve some, but only as older cabooses were sold-off by the original railroads that built them…and only later in the 1950’s - 80’s would you begin see them on other railroads.
Conrail inherited quite a few, and ran them up to the mid-80’s.
Re Andy S. query about line & loco - you have touched on where I am headed & trying to gather data, ie, find a particular line that ran coal drags in Pa. or Virginia , say around 1920/30’s, then replicate as best one can re Loco, hoppers & caboose.
I need to find material on coal trains of that region & era & would appreciate being pointed to any writings on this subject.
The problem is that virtually EVERY railroad that operated through PA and Virginia ran coal drags and in the 1920-1950 era they all used somewhat unique cabooses.
Bowser sells PRR steel cabooses
Model Power had a PRR wood caboose
LifeLike P2K sells RDG/WM/LV/LNE/CNJ cabooses
I think Walthers had a C&O caboose.
The B&O Historical Society had kits for B&O cabooses.
Typical Pennsy power would have been and I1sa Decapod in the mountains and possible an L1 Mike in the flatlands. Other power that could have been used were the N1 and N2 Santa Fe’s which migrated from the Lake ports during the winter for use system wide. Also used were the J1 Texas types and M1 Mountains.
Coal cars were primarily the H21 oxide red 4 bay hoppers (Bowser) and GL 2 bay hoppers (Bowser). The PRR also received coal from online companies such as Berwind and Westmoreland in their own cars which were GL style 2 bay hoppers.
The primary caboose would be the N5, N5a, N5b, and N5c.
I second Rick’s answer. I would suggest that a decopod or 2-10-2 would be most likely on a coal drag. Nothing sez drag like an I1 Hippo. H21’s are the coal car of choice in the 20’s-50’s. The PRR had more H21’s than most railroads had in their entire car fleet. “Pennsylvania Steel Open Hopper Cars” by John Teichmoeller and “Coal Cars: the first 300 years” by Martin Karig III will give more than you will every want to know about PRR hopper cars and hopper cars in general.
I’ll take the liberty of heading down a branchline now & ask about Norfolk & Western around the 1920’s/30’s - the reason being I have a couple of Y6B Mallets I would like to use & I read somewhere that N&W may have used them on coal drags around that period.
If so, say for late 1920’s, what models/colors would the Hoppers & Cabooses have been?
If N&W weren’t using 2-8-8-2’s on coal drags, who was??
N&W Y6b’s were were late 40’s and 50’s engines, 1920 power would have been Y3’s and Y4’s. N&W had primarily 2 and 3 bay hoppers in a number of different classes and I don’t have my reference Mainline Modeler magazines handy to give the classes and model manufacturers you can use. All N&W hoppers were painted black and cabooses were the CH class (wooden).
Y’s were primarily used on coal drags in the mountains. Although the A class and others filled in in the flatlands.
If you’re looking for a PRR caboose, a Bowser N5 or N5c would do ya. For Reading, Western Maryland, Lehigh Valley, or Central New Jersey, try a Proto 2000 Northeastern Caboose. If the C&O is more your thing go for a Walthers C&O Wood Caboose or Atlas Trainman C&O Steel Caboose. For Norfolk & Western try the Atlas NE6 Steel Caboose.
Before I take this in a new direction let me say that the new BLI decapod is possibly the most detailed PRR engine ever produced and everyone who bought one is thrilled with it. Other railroads you could consider are the Reading, Lehigh and New England, Jersey Central and Lehigh Valley all of which served the Anthracite region of Pennsylvania in the northeast corner of the state. N&W isn’t really a northeast railroad and there is a northeast caboose available that mirrors what was used in that region. RMC did a whole series of articles on it probably twenty years ago. Another non northeast rail line to consider is the Virginian. Big power including a triplex that is offered by MTH and side rod electrics and the E33c engines that are available from Bachman. They also had a masive 2-10-10-2 that had 48" front cylinders that were so big they were shipped to the railroad on flat cars and assembled to the engines on site. Plans for it appeared in MR in the 70’s. Passenger trains were basically one day trips and consisted of 4-6-2 engines and two or three coachs. The Virginian had a classic caboose that I understand someone will be coming out with in the near future. When the dieselized they bought all FM trainmasters available from Atlas or baby trainmasters also available except for one GE 44 ton engine also available. The Lionel Virginian FM trainmaster was a classic and painted correctly. The railroad paralleled the N&W from the West Virginia coalfields to a harbor and yard on the Norfolk waterfront. Eventually it was bought by the N&W. Scenery can be anything from mountain grades through the piedmont or coastal running. A really nice little railroad if you don’t already have a prototype decided. It ran east west and crossed every north south route like the ACl and Seaboard and possibly the Southern.
What I am wishing to do is find a line that at some stage in its life ran coal drags & perhaps general freight consists using 2-8-8-2’s.
I have a couple of old Rivarossi’s I enjoy running & was looking to use them in that context.
I got hold of the MM 5 part series on Modelling an N&W coal train. So far I have skimmed the articles & found that they are an excellent resource if you are into modelling hoppers in fine detail. I had anticipated from the title the series might cover the ‘whole’ train, ie, loco to caboose. It may be there & I have missed it.
But the ‘ideal’ for me at the moment I guess is to find an article with photos that says something like 'here is a picture of a “===” Line Mallet pulling a coal drag of ‘X & Y’ style hoppers and a ''Z" style caboose heading towards ??
Time period not crucial, its the 2-8-8-2 Mallet pulled drag I am looking for.
You aren’t looking for a picture, you are looking for a caption. I doubt you will find one exactly like you described because you aren’t looking for a “typical” train, you are looking for a description of a “specific” train. For typical trains look for pictures of N&W coal drags (try O. Winston Link). Since the N&W had several classes of coal cars, doubt that a description would tell you what coal cars were in the drag definitively but if you looked at an equipment register you could find out what the most common classes are and the typical drag would be mostly those cars. If the train is loaded and on the N&W, it probably safe to say the train is going to Norfolk. If you were modeling the PRR, it would be easy, the cars are H21’s.
The Virginian had numerous 2-8-8-2 drag freight engines. They also had 2-6-6-6 engines that Rivarossi makes and everything down to 0-8-0 switchers. The railroad sets itself up very nicely for loads in one direction and empties in the other and is perfect for loop running in that regard. There are a couple of paperback books available about it that include sections on cars and typical structures. You might also consider the PRR Shamokin branch that ran from Sunbury to Shamokin. There is a video about it on penntrex I think. Two 2-10-0 engines on each end front and back for the push to the interchange with the Lehigh Valley. Another railroad not mentioned is the Western Maryland that hauled a lot of coal.