During this past week I was able to fit a visit to Northlandz into a business trip to New Jersey. For those who are interested, I have written a very detailed review and posted on TripAdvisor (it will take them a couple of days to actually post it).
I am torn as to whether to recommend a visit or not. For sure, though, do not make a special trip of any length or expense to visit.
In a nutshell, the positives for me were:
The sheer scale of the thing, with several scenes having vertical terrain sweeps in excess of 2,000 scale feet.
The number of structures, and the general level of quality of the structures.
The near-scale model of the Firth of Forth railroad bridge in Scotland is amazing, in itself almost worth the price of admission.
The negatives for me were:
Serious, serious need for cleaning and maintenance.
Totally iInsufficient trains being run. I guess even simple loops become inoperable over time without maintenance and repair. Numerous other reviews on TripAdvisor from return visitors who also visited shortly after it opened comment on how few trains are now running compared with the heyday.
Ridiculously short trains. The long loops and large “sets” beg for scale-length trains. The ONE long train looked GREAT, all the others looked pathetic. The flip side of the immensity of the set-up is that a two-car train just looks silly.
Medicore scenery. Looks “good enough” when six feet or mroe away, the scenery close to the viewing areas needed tohave been done to a higher standard. Roads are mostly poorly simulated. The numerous water features are in dire need of sprucing up but do not look to have been nice even when new.None of the few simulated sidings have bumpers. Not even track immediately adjacent to the viewing areas is truly ballasted.
A couple of comments:
A great job was done in planning the walkway so that although you rise the
It is places like this that made me decide to scale down my ambitions for a model railroad. The much smaller layout that I volunteer at requires one day (3 people x 8 hours = 24 hours) a week just to keep the trains running and track clean. That doesn’t count the other 3 people who work on cleaning the floors, windows, other displays, restrooms, parking lot. I figured it might be a full time job just doing maintenance. Their wouldn’t be any time to play with the trains.
As a tourist trap, Northlandz is average/adequate.
As any kind of model railroad, it’s a bad joke.
If I was planning to spend time in the Northeast, Northlandz would not be on the itinerary. The time would be better spent at The Model Railroad Club in Union Township, NJ - a REAL model railroad. Realistically, for me, San Diego is a lot closer - and the model railroads in Balboa Park are world class.
Very much agree Chuck, I have been fortunate to visit twice, it really must be seen to be believed, a scale version of an actual railroad route, with excellent modeling. [tup]
I just looked at the Northlandz website. One of the pics is from the dollhouse museum, and one of the figures in a pic had fallen over. That says a lot.
The first thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me was the small trains. Each only had 3-8 cars and being on a layout of that scale made it look ridiculous. Not only are scale length trains needed but I agree that the scenery specifically the mountains need a lot of help. Just running a putty knife through plaster doesn’t represent mountainous territory at all.
I think the comparing Northlandz to the Model RR Club in Union Twp NJ or the San Diego Model RR museum might not be the best comparison since those two organization are not-for-profit groups run by volunteers while Northlandz is a for-profit business. I think it would be more appropriate to compare Northlandz to the Choo Choo Barn in Strasburg PA or EnterTrainment Junction in Ohio since those two “model railroads” are for-profit businesses.
The Union and San Diego clubs are model railroads designed for operation by volunteers and open their doors to the public because their leases say that have to. On the other hand, Northlandz is a business that has to open its doors to the public to generate revenue and was designed to entertain an audience that may have little to no understanding about model trains.
As for maintenance issues at Northlandz, my personal opinion is that HO scale is a terrible scale for use as a “museum” model railroad display because I don’t believe the equipment or scenic elements are as rugged or durable as they are or can be in G scale or even O Scale Lionel. The sheer size of the layout makes building and keeping up with maintenance even worse… sometimes you can have too much of a good thing.
The attraction, whimsical at best, was never intended to be any sort of model RR by our standards. I guess the sheer size of it and those massive mountain/ ravines and use of mirrors is somewhat impressive nothing prototypical by any stretch of the imagination. Went there shortly after it opened many years ago w/ my 3 kids (7, 9 and 11 @ the time), They weren’t even that thrilled as all they knew of “trains” was my club setting. Upon leaving my oldest daughter was asked by a curator or ?, how she liked it, She replied " It’s really fake and my Dad can do way better scenery w/ tossing on plaster and spread it w/ a shovel" I was kind of shocked, but she was right.
I guess you take it for what it is, a tourist attraction, those short Mantu powered trains running in loops by racks of MRC power packs, the Dr Suess like appearance of the scenes and extended bridges spanning the abiss ,can be exciting to most for what it is.
There are some HO model railroads that do compare with Northlandz as layouts and attractions. Although not nearly as large, the HO layout at the Chicago Science Museum does a really nice job, technically and aesthetically, in a very public venue (though with much more financial support, no doubt).
Then there is Miniatur Wunderland, a layout that truly shows the potential of HO scale spectacle as an evolving attraction. Theirs is a truly remarkable story that showcases what can be done with creativity and a slick publicity strategy (they recently engaged each of Germany’s mainstream political parties to create their “perfect Germany” in 1 square meter of layout space). Again, different in many ways from Northlandz, but still demonstrative of what is possible.
Come on folks…you have to a little impressed! This hobby is about limitless imagination and the builder certainly is well versed in this department. Many would be happy to have 8 scale miles of track. This layout is 8 real miles of track. Sure there are shortcomings and most of us would not model in this fashion, but as an attraction and ambassador for the hobby, a big yes. When I was there several years ago, there were many kiddies, and I would easily say that most developed a serious interest in model trains that day.
Short trains? I would not want to climb up one of his mountains to re-rail a car. Short trains not only give the impression of distance, but are not as prone to derailments.I have found that visiting modelers could care less about seeing the trains run…just seeing the layout and learning how it was built is foremost. Now Kids and non-model railroading public…the trains should be running.
I would agree that HO was a poor choice for something the size of an aircraft hangar. ‘O’ would have been perfect or possibly G or F.
MWRA,
HO scale is a terrible scale for a museum display? You better not tell the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry. [swg] They’ve been running their large, excellent HO representation of the Chicago to Seattle mainline for years now, and have engines that run thousands of real miles. I believe their current record is something like 4000 miles for Athearn Genesis SD70’s, and Kato F40PH’s are not far behind. I’m not sure other, larger scales would be any better.
Howard,
Designing a layout, any layout, that is impossible to repair or maintain is pure foolishness, no matter the size. I’ve heard that there are old coffee cups and other trash dropped by customers on the layout over the years that are still there because no one can get to them.
I’m aware of the Chicago pike, Germany, and many other really successful and well operating HO pikes. Just if I had such an enormous space, I would have chosen a larger sale…mainly for the ruggedness, and ease of viewing and maintaining.
I began my pike with a space of 678 sq. ft. Had I known it would have grown to almost 3000 sq. ft., most likely I would have gone to ‘O’ scale or On3. I am quite happy with HO and although I have often considered selling everything and jumping to a larger scale…it ain’t gonna happen.
When I visited in 2005, the areas were well maintained and run rather professionally. I will not judge others work. All I’ll say is that most of us model a bit differently.
All this discussion begs the question, “what passes for acceptable model railroading”. You will never get a concensus on that one. You can refine it a bit to “what passes as acceptable model railroading, today”.
In this latter context, Northlandz was acceptable in its day, for sure. Its day, in the eyes of most modern and especially nit-picky, “discerning” MRs, is past…
Operations, scaling, fit and finish are of another era all together.
In one of my original postings this past year I think I asked for photos of other’s early layouts and MR efforts. Few posted anything of their earliest work. Too embarrassed, I guess. The few who did supply images were amused and remembered the pride and satifaction from that early work.
Our work tends to fit each era that we modeled in and reflects our skill levels at that time coupled with what technology and materials were at hand at the time within the MR community.
Northlandz should be held in similar awe with John Allen’s effort. Both efforts were crude by today’s standards. John was famous for his innovation as well as for cute and ridiculous names and scenes on a rather cramped layout that grew. Northlandz is famous for sheer size and scope. I can readily pick at John Allens work using today’s standards as I can Northlandz.
When we go to see a “model railroad” each of us have different expectations and thoughts on what is good and what is terrible.
Step back and remember your own work…If you go back that far.
I totally disagree. I seem to recall similar discussions like this when it was “brand new” in its current incarnation. It has never been acceptable except as a tourist toy train exhibit.
Richad I agree with your thinking, one thing that is continuing to bother me about this hobby is that there are quite a few who won’t look at it that way. It’s eaten away at me, a former member here who did give support quickly changed his opinion once he was gone.
I think that people need to look beyond the other persons model railroad to try and get a feel for what they are dealing with. The former forum member criticized the trackside diner thread just because it was the most popular, that’s the type of thread where you see and read what others are dealing with, as well as some of their accomplishments, and even support for their fellow forumers/modelers. I go by a simple thought in this hobby: don’t judge others work until you’ve shown your own.
Like my original 2 x 4 layout I did, that was criticized for being simple one train operation I hadn’t even been running trains for a year when I built it. Even running basic DC has gotten me criticized same for my current lack of a layout.
Working a min. wage job and getting no hours at work makes it hard to support the hobby let alone build a layout. On top of that hobby pressures include a track shortage, lack of locomotive, rolling stock, and decal selection for the SP&S as well as a lack of funds to buy fodder to repaint and decal.
the only good thing I can think of is that I’ve redone my upcoming(doubtful) layout plan, gotten some decals to make the sprinklings of a small fleet, and the time to wait out the track shortage.
I also found a ton of photos from my previous layout.
I fully agree. I remember the first magazine piece I saw on Northlandz and wondered at the time how something with workmanship that poor was worth paying to see it.
The point of comparison isn’t a private modeler’s early layout efforts, as they represent learning experiences, and nobody’s charging admission. Nor is it something like the creations of hobby masters like Allen McClelland with his original V&O or John Allen, who created work of high quality for their time. Layouts like theirs may not exhibit current materials or techniques, but the workmanship still holds up to scrutiny today.
Howard,
I don’t know how much more “rugged” a larger scale is vs. HO. HO is not a “poor choice” as it’s all a matter of the way it’s built and displayed. MSI and Wunderland prove that it is perfectly possible to create and maintain a large quality museum display layout in HO. Northlandz is proof that not all attempts result in a quality layout. And I think it’s safe to say that a Northlandz-like effort in any scale would be just as poor.
I don’t see why anyone won’t criticize Northlandz. This isn’t a club full of amateurs with a limited budget. This is not a home layout with the owner having a “real job” that gets in the way. This isn’t even a model railroad magazine layout built to sell “how to” articles. Northlandz is a for-profit roadside attraction that charges admission. It’s no different from criticizing Atlas, Athearn, BLI or Walthers who offer products for our money.
Richard,
What do you mean by “acceptable model railroading”? As in, above criticism?
Northlandz was never acceptable to me, scenery-wise. It’s always been ridiculous.
It was opened in 1996, just 17 years ago. John Allen’s layout was started in 1954, 42 years before Northlandz opened. To me, it’s absurd that you would even consider both layouts to be equal in any way other than the fact that both a HO gauge pikes. John Allen’s work was possibly the best that could be done at that time. No one could ever say that about Northlandz.
Gary, “…Don’t judge others work until you’ve shown your own”? Sorry, but that’s right up there with only movie directors should be movie critics. If someone shows a messed up model and asks for replies, are we not allowed to point out crooked decals and fuz
