Not Enough Power

Here’s the deal–I just completed a layout and built it as all one electrical unit instead of in “cabs” because I am about to transfer from analog to digital. I love passenger trains so I have a lot of cars, most of them with lights. As the lights burn when the power goes to the track, it decreases the speed of my engines. Question is: any ideas on how to solve this problem without putting in block switches on some of the tracks. Also can I increase the power to the single train transformer that is running the whole thing or will I burn out the engine motor. And finally: when I go to digital would I have to install decoders in each of the cars in order to turn the lights off?

Thanks so much

tam

I’m not sure that others will see it this way but I find one of your statements just a little confusing. You state:

By this comment are you saying that your locomotives run faster light than they do with the load of the train behind? No kidding!!! Mine do the same thing!!!

There is no real solution to your problem, the lights take up electrical energy, which the locomotive needs. Cutting your lights out of the equation gives the locmotive all of the electrical energy, so it can run faster. Cut them back in, and the locomotive can’t go as fast. So either, deal with it until you switch to DCC, which should be more than able to supply enough current, convert your lighted cars to battery power, or cut the lights out of your cars completely.

One more piece of advice… when you purchase a DCC unit make sure you have one that will supply enough power. Go big on the power supply since all those bulbs will suck down some amperage - as you have seen with straight DC. On DC, a larger power pack (more wattage) would solve your slow running problem also.

George V.

There are a number of solutions to the problem, each of which has issues.

You can add a decoder to each car, as suggested. If you always run the same consist of cars, you could run wires between the cars and control them all at once. (This could have the advantage of ganging together all the wheel pickups, so you would pretty much eliminate flicker.) But, then you will have one very long car from the standpoint of an auto-reverser, which could be a different problem. Yes, you could put a decoder in every car, but that is going to be a lot of work and expense.

You can put a small toggle or slide switch on each car. I’ve done this to a couple of cars, putting the switches on the bottom where they can’t be seen. Unfortunately, it also means I have to remove the car from the track to throw the switch, and then replace it.

You can add a magnetic latching reed switch to each car. These switches can be thrown either way with the aid if a “magic wand” which you simply wave over the car. (You may say “Abracadabra” if you wish, but it’s not required.) The switches, though, are not cheap, and you’ll still have to open up the cars to install them.

Rapido makes what they call their “Easy Peasy” lighting system. This is a complete system for one car, including LEDs, reed switch and a battery. They do not rely on track power at all. I don’t have any personal information on battery life, but you might have to change them once every year or two if you run the cars with lights a lot. Not cheap, but on the order of the price of a decoder. I think the big advantage is that you’re not drawing down power, no many how many of these you have running.

You can replace your incandescent lights with LEDs. This will greatly reduce the current demanded by you car lighting. Cheap LEDs, though, don’t have the color you want, and LEDs are very directional so you

T:

More power! Use a pack with a higher amp rating. Some of the DC packs nowadays, though strong on control, are weak on current.

There are few engineering problems in this world that can’t be solved or reduced with the application of more power.

AMEN, BROTHER! Having read some of the electrical nonsense it makes me wonder how I survived twenty years in the Air Force as an elctronics technician!

As far as track power vs. battery you could do some of both…it’s possible to set it up that you use batteries to light the cars, but have the batteries recharged via track power. Maybe not that easy to set up, but once installed you should rarely have to remove/replace a battery.

As said its a current (amps) problem I feel that leds are the best choice I saw some on Ebay for $.32each for a lot of 50 including shipping then have to buy resistors. Now when I first stated thinking about a layout before dcc was popular I was going to build my on trottle and maybe use car battery for power or a large transformer from a charger or eleminator for my power

Be very careful doing this if you must but preferably avoid it altogether. Using a battery would mean that you have an unlimited power source for even a few seconds, effectively creating a possibility of the power of an arc welder should you get a short circuit somewhere… and derailments can be a real source of short circuits particularly with metal trucks!

Regards

Trevor

xd:

This same thing was said on rmr a long while back, and it’s not really hard to get around. Put something in series with the railroad to limit current. A no. 1157 auto taillight bulb should do nicely, and if it’s visible you have a handy overload indicator (when it lights brightly, you’re overloading).
A circuit breaker or a fuse could also be used, although the bulb or circuit breaker would be preferable, since they don’t need to be replaced all the time.

The real reason not to use a car battery is that you can buy a 5A transformer and bridge rectifier a lot more cheaply and have a nice, powerful supply for a homemade throttle that doesn’t need to be charged.

Powering a DC layout with a car battery - state of the art technology (circa 1940) !!

That’s what model railroaders did for years before DC powerpacks became available. Wasn’t uncommon for someone at a club layout operating session to have to run out and take the battery out of their car to use for powering the trains.

tam, it is an unfortunate fact that incandescent bulbs burn a lot of watts that reduce available power to your engine(s). This is even more of a problem with DCC. The really best solution in the long run is to change the car lighting to all LED’s in series with a small resistor in each car. You can also get miniature toggle switches to mount through the floor to turn them off and on. Another possibility is a reed switch inside the roof, operated with a magnet. Hope this helps. jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA

You’ll be happiest in the long run if you create some blocks in your layout … even though you are planning for DCC, blocks now will help with trouble shooting and load-balancing (via adding more boosters) when you get to DCC. And in the meantime on DC, even one additional block, a couple of toggles, and another power pack will solve your problem.

You can try a half-dozen crazy workarounds or just do it right the first time.

Byron
Model RR Blog

I guess that automobile batteries as a power source were not altogether unusual in the pre-WWII era; when I got in the hobby in the '60s the subject came up periodically in the hobby press. One of the hobby mags one time said that with a battery, if it had no other recommendable qualities, if you owned a car you would always have a charged-up power supply.

I never saw it but I was told that one of the members in my club in Mass in the mid-60s used battery power; he owned a war surplus store and he had acquired some ballast resistors being disposed of by the Navy and he was using those as current limiters.

RTP:

Some of the clubs used nickel-iron Edison batteries. I think Frank Ellison did, too…and I think his actually came from 1:1 scale Pullman cars. [:D]

These, for those who might not have heard of them, use nickel oxide and iron electrodes, with a KOH electrolyte. They are very durable batteries that can take a lot of mechanical and electrical abuse.

  1. The AC transfomer in any power pack determins limits of Current (amps) it can deliver. What’s yours?

  2. Amps do the work, (Volts are ‘speed’/or intensity related, but AMPS are ‘CAPACITY’ . “Electricity” is always a combination of the two.

  3. Incandescent lamps consume power (amps).

POWER PACKS - whether DC or DCC - have ‘Wattage’ or ‘VA’ ratings. Some DCC boosters have AMP ratings. Good DCC systems deliver 5 amps. Borderline is 3 amps. Cheap systems deliver 1 amp. (Yours ???).

(Cheap) car ilumination uses bulbs which can use 1 amp per car. 10 such cars can put as much as a 10 amp load on your track, without leaving much for your engine.’

SOLUTIONS are to balance things: (Add power or Reduce load). Simplist is to remove lighted cars. (2) Use 5 amp power boosters (3)change to expensive (2-3X) LED car lighting.

You can also stay DC and add an MRC 9500 power Pack, which I heartedly recommend.

OR you can unscrew the bulbs.

DG:

Almost…DC current is amps, DC /power/ is watts. Power does the work. Basically 100 W is 100 W, whether you’re getting it by 1A at 100V or 100A at 1V. So, basically, if you hold the voltage and increase the current, you can say “more current” or “more power” with the same accuracy, but the second is funner.

MOOOORE POWER!

Yuhp!!! Good ol’ P=I X E!!!

RTP:

Yes, indeed. Who can resist a bigger slice of delicious P=IE?

(Until the I^2R makes your ice cream melt, that is.)