On my model rairoad, Pacific Cascade Railway, both NP through Yakima and GN through Chehalis WA often send freight and trains across White Pass on my line. In 1878 C.A. White actually surveyed this line for NP, and in my version of history in 1950 NP & GN built the line to parallel Stampede pass. I am looking for the freight train designations for these two lines in Washington to use on my railroad. On line links are preferred. Thanks for any help.
Capt. Brigg Franklin; CEO Pacific Cascade Rainway in HO gauge;
Capt.
I clerked for GN at Wenatchee in the time period you asked about, so I know the GN. The GN operated four pairs of trains per day over the Cascades in 1969. 5 and the East Pig, 97 & 82, 83 & 88, and a Drag West and a Drag East.
#5 was a mail train from Spokane to Seattle, Daily except Saturday, that also handled hot cars equipped with roller bearings, including 89’ TOFC cars. The train was usually 12-15 cars. Power was 2-3 passenger F units. This train was the fastest on the line, quicker than even the Empire Builder. Switch engines plucked storage mail cars off the rear end at Wenatchee and Everett. The east pig was longer, up to 40 cars, was merchandise cars (box and TOFC) from Seattle to Spokane, and power was that from last nights #5. It also operated only six days per week and through Wenatchee about 2AM.
#97 was the hot train from Chicago and Minneapolis. Its base traffic was forwarder merchandise in box cars from eastern connections, Chicago, and the Twin Cities. It made a setout at Everett Junction and was limited to 3600 tons with 3 SD-45 units over the Cascades.
#82 was the hot train east. It carried most any kind of traffic for Gavin Yard (Minot) and points east of Gavin and made a pickup at Everett Junction. It used the power into Interbay on #97, and it too was limited to 3600 tons as a ‘single train’. That is, no helper. Picked up available Gavin and east traffic at Wenatchee.
#83 handled everything that #97 did not from Gavin and east to Hillyard, the SP&S, Delta and north, and Seattle (and Puget Sound points). #83 was a helper train limited to 6500 tons over the Cascades. Both 97 and 83 were scheduled to arrive in Seattle about midnight, and the brass monitored 97 very closely.
#88 used power off #83, most often a set of four U-25-B units. It followed #82 out of Interbay, made a pickup at Everett Jct, got helpers at Skykomish, and gererally cut them out at Cashmere for the Drag West. The train picked up Hillyard
Mac, thanks for your extensive knowledge of the GN. Did the “pigs” and “drags” you refer to also have train numbers? Did any of these trains run between Seattle and Portland through Chehalis where I could run & see them on my model train layout? Again thanks.
Capt. Brigg; CEO Pacific Cascade Railway in HO gauge
None of the trains above showed in the Employee Time Table. The numbers refered to here were used as train symbols, for marketing purposes and non-operating short hand and as train identification on train briefs. To the train dispatchers #97 was Extra 400 West today, Extra 405 West tomorrow, etc. If management wanted to know about the progress of the symbol trains they used that language, plus departure date, to track them or call the DS without having to know what engine happened to be leading at the moment.
Given the real traffic patterns across Washington State, there was no need for your route. Part of the proof is that the NP went via Stampede Pass rather than White Pass when it had unhinderd choice of routes in the late 1880’s. Remember that NP’s west end had to be a port on Puget Sound by the terms of its federal charter.
In the 1960’s Seattle and Tacoma were the main destinations and origin points for carload, intermodal, and export grain as there were elevators in both Seattle and Tacoma. Both the GN and the NP went to Canada and interchanged with the Canadian carriers.
NP owned the then double track, now two main track, route between Seattle and Vancouver WA. GN had full trackage rights on this line, that is they could serve all customers. The UP had trackage rights from North Portland to
Capt., I also considered a model RR between Tacoma and Yakama that would have utilized White Pass, but would also have utilized a natural low valley to bring the line along the southern boundary of Mt Rainier Nat’l Park. However, I thought of a friendly connection at Yakama with the UP, who would have used the line as a shorter alternative to the trackage rights on joint line N of Portland. My line is only practical using modeler’s license.
In the Forties and Fifties, there was an author named S. (Selwyn) Kip Farrington, Jr; he was apparently born to a fair amount of wealth and worked in his family’s brokerage firm, and at a very young age, but could muster no enthusiasm for the role. He was, however, possessed of a good deal of journalistic skill, so he gravitated to writing on his three favorite subjects – amateur hockey, big-game-fishing, and railroading.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._Kip_Farrington
Although he later produced The Santa Fe’s Big Three, on that road’s best-known steam power, most of his railroad-centered works were essentially public-relations-oriented, with enough technical material added to attract railfans. Railroads of the Hour, published in 1958, was the last of this series, and included considerable material on the NP. *(*And as an aside, it also makes reference to the Bakken Oil Field, in which NP and its successors “mothballed” their options until more favorable economic circumstances came to pass.)
No actual ETT data was provided, but on its transcontinental main, the NP appeared to operate (without timetable authority) two daiiy manifest freights in each directon. One of the eastbounds, designated simply “F” appears to be a maid-of-all-work; timetable authority was conferred on the North Coast Limited, the Mainstreeter, and a daily Spokane-Tacoma accomodation schedule.
One thing to remember about Timetable Schedules. First Class trains (passenger) operated on the schedules as published. Second and Third Class schedules, where they exist, were TOOLS for the Train Dispatcher to use in oprating their railroad. Some carriers were happy to operate all their freights as Extras.
My experience on the B&O’s St. Louis Division, Timetable schedules were assigned to trains depending upon when they were called on duty at origin or when they were anticipated to arrive at a crew change point (which normally also corresponded with dispatching districts). It was not unheard of for a specific ‘named’ manifest train to originate from E.Saint Louis with one schedule number and then operate from Washington, IN under a different schedule number.
A note about schedules, at least under B&O Rules. Schedules were in effect until a train completed the run of a schedule, until the schedule was 12 hours old or until it was annulled. If a train was running on a schedule that went 12 hours old, the train lost authority to operate and then had to be established and given authority to operate as a Extra train.
In assigning schedules, if the train was expected to depart origin at 8 AM, you would have to assign it a schedule that departed that location PRIOR to 8 AM or the train would be delayed waiting on the departure time of the schedule. Therefore, 2nd & 3rd Class trains always operated late on the schedules they were assigned to.
I have understood that, on any railroad, a train loses its achedule if it falls 12 hours or more behind schedule, and can move only with an order to move.
At least on the freight railroads, Amtrak schedules are meaningless from an operational view. Their schedules aren’t even shown on the “stations” page of time tables (UP and I think BNSF) anymore. They do (or did) appear in the back for informational puposes. Trains today have no class([:-^]), or superiority under the operating rules.
Jeff
Today’s railroads do not operate with the Timetable & Train Order form of operation. As such, Schedules have no Timetable authority in operations. The only thing 12 hours is concerned with is the Hours of Service law and what time crews will run out of time to move trains.