NS 28N Chicago to Charlotte

Trains Magazine
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I admit my fascination of railroading runs a little counter to most. While the locomotives are interesting, I find the logistics of moving product more fascinating.

Intermodal trains, particularly those handling primarily domestic containers and trailers are of higher interest to me, particularly those “premium” trains. “Premium” intermodals typically carry UPS trailers/containers. Also those trains will have LTL, Amazon, JBH, and other high priority time sensitive loads.

NS runs a 28N/29C pair between Chicago and Charlotte on a daily basis. CSX offers no competition on this lane. I watch the 28N nearly daily on the Fostoria cam, it is reliably thru between 7 - 8am. It is heavy with JBH, Amazon, and usually has about 10 UPS trailers/containers. It is a “hot” train, often referred to as a “UPS train”.

Saturday morning it had a leader NS1066 the NYC heritage unit so i had the opportunity to track it on passage to Charlotte.

Quite a route the NS has carved out. Leaving Calumet Yard in Chicago it moves via the old Nickle Plate to Bellevue, then makes a right hand turn to Columbus (ex PRR and NW line from the 1964 merger of NW/NKP/WAB). South of Columbus it takes the old NW line to Roanoke and then Virginian route to Altavista, Va and makes another right turn on the ex Southern mainline (Washington - Atlanta) to Charlotte. The intermodal yard is Satellite Yard near the airport.

Milage for this is about 1006, based on my 1955 Official Guide. When the route is viewed on a map, it resembles an “M” tilted about 90 degrees. This is NOT a direct high speed route. Driving mileage is 743 (per Google maps). Thus a 35% penalty exists for the intermodal route…quite a delta. Yet, despite the milage penalty the train attracts traffic, with a typical weekday load consisting of 150 - 200 containers and trailers. Again, all domestic.

Tracking the heritage unit, it appears the train travelled the 1006 miles in about 34 hours or about 29mph. The ex NW route thru WV is a slow one, online ETT and track charts seem to limit train speed to 40mph and often less.

Here is my point. We think of domestic priority intermodal is point to point fairly high speed (Chi to LA, Seattle, NY, etc) which run on efficient speedways. This route is anything but efficient and fast.

Yet, it works. Perhaps the mileage (743 by highway) makes it a 2 day delivery by truck anyway. Perhaps there is a need for movements in this lane (which NS owns). No doubt the schedule is built around UPS needs (12am departure from Chicago and arrival early AM in Charlotte).

Any comments on this? I am fascinated by this train, the routing carved out and the execution.

Ed

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BTW, just checked the Heritage Units website and NS1066 is returning on 29C.

It was at Roanoke 611Am this morning.

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28N and it’s counterpart 29C both work Greensboro, NC. So in that regard, this is the most efficient route, since the trains O/D in Charlotte. NS may have tried different routings, such going via Knoxville, perhaps even setting out the Greensboro block at Charlotte. However you don’t want to add a bunch of work events to IM trains for cost reasons. So I imagine this is the optimal routing. No additional work events, just one at Greensboro.

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That makes sense. The trains previous symbols 217/218 at one time originated in Greensboro. I do not recall when Charlotte was added. What is the major market - Charlotte or Greensboro on these trains? Or is it about equal?

The Greensboro work makes sense on the timing of the 28N I tracked. The train was spotted in Roanoke at 144am and Greensboro at 707am. The distance between the two is about 133 miles, 5 hours and 23 minutes transit time = 25mph. I would think on the ex Southern mainline the train could achieve better time, but if a set out is made then that could consume up to an hour.

ed

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NS 1066 spotted at Chattaroy, WV at 216pm on the 29C.

Roanoke to Chattaroy is 204 miles…8 hours = 25.5 mph.

The NW passenger train #3 Pocahontas covered the same in 6 hours with 8 stops = 34mph.

Ed

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Charlotte is larger, however the Greensboro area is seeing rapid growth.

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Just another report…29C with the NS1066 passed Fostoria @ 0136 EST this morning.

With 232 miles to Calumet Yard, my guess is the train should have arrived by 0630 CST (6 hours). Pretty smooth operations across Ohio and Indiana.

Would like to see an official NS schedule for this train, but that is probably beyond my abilities. Their website gives schedules, but based on “cutoffs” and “available”.

This route has to be considered an accomplishment in today’s intermodal market.

ed

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This service, between Chicago and Charlotte/Greensboro, would certainly make an interesting case study in an MBA program.

There’s a lot for the NS to overcome. Extra mileage and time vs. truck for example, But the railroad is making it work. How so?

Well, let’s start with an equation:

“Will” x “Resources” = “Outcome”.

Kind of a rephrase of “Where there’s a will there’s a way.” But you also need the resources to enable the will.

The NS has the resources. But without the will those resources would be left idle. NS also has the will to make this work. Combined, will and resources are getting the job done.

A major problem in railroad market development is lack of will. There are far too many people who exist to say: “It won’t work.” Some of those people are on this forum.

You can’t win if you don’t try.

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I’m hardly informed about this type of discussion, but I thought I’d at least peek. There’s mention of the alternate trucking option. But even with the extra miles, I’d think rail is the better option by far - think of the sheer volume and tonnage involved. Dollars per ton-mile has got to be decidedly in favor of rail. Please flesh out my thinking or derail it as appropriate.

John

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Thanks for the replies on this. I thought this discussion might die a slow death since it is an “uninteresting” aspect of the industry for many. Greyhound, I was hoping you would jump in as it addresses an interest of yours - intermodal movements.

Today’s 28N just passed thru Fostoria and by my count there were 299 containers/trailers. MASSIVE 28N, the largest I have seen. Perhaps it is catching up with the New Year Day holiday. I didnt see one yesterday, so this might have been a combo train.

To the best of my ability, today’s train had approximately 70 JBH, 56 Amazon, and 20 UPS units.

I cannot image there would be 70 JBH and 56 Amazon loads between Chicago and North Carolina, so my best guess is there is considerable interchange between BNSF and NS on these moves. Perhaps I am wrong.

Anyway, quite an impressive train. At about $800 per load, that would be a revenue of about $240,000.

NS is obviously doing something right with this train. As I mentioned earlier, we tend to view intermodal as high speed, high density lanes (Chi - NYC, Chi - SoCal, etc) but this proves there are other markets…if properly developed.

Meanwhile, yesterday’s CSX Chicago to Baltimore I018 intermodal had 2 motors and 7 loads (3 UPS). Hmm.

Ed

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I think this service is not comparable to UPS Z trains. Significant blocks of doublestacked Hunt containers indicate (to me) that you have a commodity intermodal train, rather than a high-speed intermodal service.

The thing to look at is that this train will have interchanged with a Western carrier, probably BNSF, and the speed or dispatch of how they run the connecting service would be a guide to what NS would be promoting. My guess is that iit’s a ‘child of PSR’ – operated in no more than 5th notch, arranged in blocks, and where ‘just-in-time’ considerations are part of the marketing, scheduled “slow” delivery rather than the old Flexi-Van or Z-train get-it-there-ASAP sort of logistics.

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Woke:
Perhaps it is not comparable to UPS trains…except this train is handling UPS containers and trailers. Today’s had 20 UPS units (as far as I can tell). Thus, it is a hybrid type train with not only the UPS loads, but also the Amazon’s and the JBH’s. Quite an impressive display.

Regarding a child of PSR, it has been running since at least 2008…before I moved to current location I was near the NKP tracks and 217/218 (symbols at that time) were running. Much smaller train at the time. When I did see it, typically it would be 100 units, if memory serves me correctly.

Obviously the JBH and EMPs are probably coming off of BNSF and UP. So it appears that NS has put together an impressive operation.

For those interested go to Heritageunits website. You can enter the train symbol and the route map is shown. Quite a path they have carved out. Also no doubt notch 5 thru the mountain route of WV - lots of 30mph speed restrictions.

Ed

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[quote] MP173

12h

Thanks for the replies on this. I thought this discussion might die a slow death since it is an “uninteresting” aspect of the industry for many. Greyhound, I was hoping you would jump in as it addresses an interest of yours - intermodal movements.

Today’s 28N just passed thru Fostoria and by my count there were 299 containers/trailers. MASSIVE 28N, the largest I have seen. Perhaps it is catching up with the New Year Day holiday. I didnt see one yesterday, so this might have been a combo train.

To the best of my ability, today’s train had approximately 70 JBH, 56 Amazon, and 20 UPS units.

I cannot image there would be 70 JBH and 56 Amazon loads between Chicago and North Carolina, so my best guess is there is considerable interchange between BNSF and NS on these moves. Perhaps I am wrong.

Anyway, quite an impressive train. At about $800 per load, that would be a revenue of about $240,000.

NS is obviously doing something right with this train. As I mentioned earlier, we tend to view intermodal as high speed, high density lanes (Chi - NYC, Chi - SoCal, etc) but this proves there are other markets…if properly developed.

Meanwhile, yesterday’s CSX Chicago to Baltimore I018 intermodal had 2 motors and 7 loads (3 UPS). Hmm.

Ed[/quote]

At present intermodal to/from Baltimore to Western point is operating via Albany and Buffalo while the Howard Street Tunnel project is underway through the City of Baltimore. My understanding this adds over 300 miles to the trip.

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Please explain how a 300-mile ‘detour’ is occurring for traffic routed via “Albany and Buffalo”. That would imply that the traffic is being forwarded up the :“Lehigh line” and the ex-West Shore to Selkirk, and then west via the ex-NYC. That is a CSX route; I don’t think NS has any line that can cost-effectively use those two points as ‘best option’. What is the adopted route for traffic to the west of the Port of Baltimore for the two railroads, with Howard Street closed, and the Key bridge down restricting drayage?

Implicitly this appears to be telling us that 300 miles of rail operation is cheaper than a few miles of drayage around 695.

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CSX does not have any form of intermodal terminal West of Baltimore that Westward traffic could be drayed to. Westward traffic, for the time being, moves east out of Baltimore up the Philadelphia Sub to Philadelphia and the intermodal route through to Selkirk and then West to Buffalo, Cleveland, Willard and to North Baltimore for box switching - the reverse for Eastbound traffic.

NS traffic in/out of Baltimore uses the NEC to Perryville and then the Port Road to Harrisburg/Enola and the rest of the NS System. NS use of the NEC is severely restricted by Amtrak which owns and dispatches the NEC.

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The CSX runs an intermodal train, I158, of both domestics and internationals between North Baltimore, Oh. and Baltimore, Md. This train passes thru Fostoria, Oh around 6-7am EST and is a monster train. The train works Cleveland, Buffalo, Syracuse, Selkirk, and Baltimore and is usually between 300 and 400 containers. I assume this traffic comes from BNSF and UP which run trains into the Ohio facility.

Westbound counterpart I157 reverses the same route and works Philadelphia and South Kearny, NJ. This info is from the railfan wiki page and is usually pretty accurate.

I believe CSX used to run a I 136/I137 pair between Chicago and Baltimore which was restricted to single stacks for clearance purposes. That train ran via Cumberland, Md on the traditional CSX route (ex B&O) and worked several intermodal terminals en route. Due to the single stack restrictions it often ran 12-14,000 ft in length.

Back to regular programing today (1/4) NS28C was another healthy train with 233 domestic containers and trailers with at least 14 UPS and 54 Amazon containers. Thru Fostoria at 943am and had distributed power 2x1.

Ed

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During the period I was on the Baltimore Division
Q135-136 were intermodals Philadelphia to Chicago via Baltimore/Cumberland
Q137-138 were intermodals Baltimore to Chicago
In the early 2000’s Q135-136 were abandoned and Philadelphia intermodal traffic was routed via Selkirk, Buffalo, Cleveland, Willard to Chicago.
In the mid 2000’s Q135-136 were reestablished between Portsmouth, VA and Chicago.

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Just what UPS Z trains are you talking about?

I worked in intermodal marketing, and I know you either meet the UPS standards or you lose their business. Our (ICG) operating fools decided not to run a UPS train one day. I got the first phone call from UPS. Jesus Christ Almighty!! That was as close to Hell as I ever want to get. That train ran. It ran late, but it ran. After me they went to the railroad CEO and the train ran. Don’t mess with UPS.

But.

We must remember that railroad costs accrue by the train mile while railroad revenue accrues by the ton mile. So, if a railroad is going to offer UPS quality service for an origin-destination pair it will logically and reasonably seek to add revenue ton miles to the consist. Yes, the NS will take interchange from western carriers, and it will add Chicago area origin freight to the train. The NS would be downright foolish not to do this.

The objective is not to maximize revenue or minimize costs, The objective is to maximize the spread between costs and revenue.

As to getting it there “ASAP.” That’s generally a fool’s errand. Unless you’ve got a heart to transplant or a fire to put out. Getting it there to the greatest net benefit is the ideal.

NS seems to be doing that quite well.

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One of the things (in the pre-commoditized-intermodal era) I heard about UPS was that, as a ‘bridge’ transportation provider, they were concerned with ‘minimal latency’ en route, which frequently translated into high road speed and priority dispatching to avoid meet or dwell delay. You may remember the tests with Genesis locomotives to get higher peak road speed. I of course fully agree that a pure railroad service should be run ‘to the greatest net benefit’ but the UPS criteria include end-customer satisfaction – those customers having paid a priority rate for shipping, and expecting their packages delivered yesterday. This is only furthered by press or other reports that UPS is trying to move faster. There is little or no JIT/kanban allowance for precise delivery time over end-to-end speed, and parcel customers aren’t likely to subscribe to the ‘it’s more efficient to take a few more hours to conserve carbon emissions’ or whatever.

It was my impression that many of the Z trains in the West still operate at 70+mph, and what I wanted to see was whether the traffic from the West was on such trains, and whether the block switching or run-through was conducted in an expedited manner. I was thinking it might be possible to gauge whether 28N was being considered the modern equivalent of a ‘hotshot’ or as modern precision optimized railroading.

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UPS has scheduled ‘Sort Times’ for their traffic with the railroads. UPS measures the railroad’s performance based on the Sort Times. To ‘make’ a Sort Time, the railroads may ground UPS shipments and dray them to destination so as to ‘make’ the Sort Time - Expensive you bet - but that is the kind of service UPS demands if you want to handle their traffic.