Are there any NYC Hudson’s still out there somewhere preserved in parks or museums?
Thanks,
George
Nope. Not a single 4-6-4 NYC Hudson nor 4-8-4 Niagara, and that’s a pity.
That is a real shame. I have several of Lionel’s “baby hudsons” , one Lionel scale model hudson and one American Flyer hudson in my train collection. I have always admired this locomotive and wished I could have seen the full sized ones in action. I hoped I might be able to see one on display. Someone at New York Central was short sighted.
George
Hi, As far as I know, only 2 New York Central steam locomotives still in exist. One is 4-4-0 #999 which is housed in the Museum of Science & Industry in Chicago and the other is a 4-8-2 Mohawk in the New York Central Museum in Elkhart, IN. Unlike the PRR and B&O which preserved one of almost everything, the NYC preserved nothing. It really is a shame.
There is another Mohawk, number 2933, at the Museum of Transportation in St. Louis.
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The only modern B&O steam preserved was one 4-6-2 P7 Pacific, and one Q-Class 2-8-2. Everything else was scrapped including all of their famous S Class 2-10-2s, their large fleet of T Class 4-8-2s (which were build as late as 1948), and all of the powerful 2-8-8-4 EM1 Class locomotives.
Pennsy didn’t preserve much either considering the size and variation of their steam fleet.
Actually, the two roads with the most preserved steam would probably be the Southern Pacific followed by the Union Pacific and the Santa Fe. But the Pennsylvania Railroad did a fair job, certainly better than the B&O in size and scope. The B&O gains points by their preservation of 19th Century power, granted that much of the equipment displayed in the museum is reproductions of the original, but not all. The PRR preserved at least one each of their core designs, notable exceptions being their WWII era motive power. They also didn’t preserve some of their bigger power, such as articulateds (the Q and T class were rigid frame engines) or 2-10-2’s. Nor did they preserve a switch engine with more than six driving wheels. But they did save a considerable number of locomotives.
There’s a NYC 0-6-0 floating around somewhere. High 4-digit number IIRC. It used to be in Hagerstown ca 1970. Saw it many times.
In the late 1950s the country was in a Recession, railroad Revenue was being decimated by the Jet Airplane, Interstate Highways, and the St. Lawrence Seaway.
Cutting cost was job one! They turned to the diesel locomotive and, and to recope some of the cost, the total scrapping of the steam took place.
Can’t say I really agree with that. Of the top of my head, I know of only of two K4 4-6-2s, one M1 4-8-2, one 2-8-2, and one 2-10-0 Decapod. Might be a handful of smaller PRR switcher size locos floating around. They had 125 or so big 2-10-4s, not one preserved. Again, considering the sheer size and variation of the PRR fleet, not much of a preservation effort.
The C&O did a much better job than the B&O and PRR combined. There is number of modern C&O Super Power designs still in existance.
Prior to the wacky stuff in 40s and 50s, the PRR tried to save one each of the better, standard designs. They were standardized, almost to a fault - still building pacifics long after their day as state of the art was passed, so, no Hudsons or Northerns. for eample. They had some odd ball stuff, but not too much variety in their std fleet. Check the roster at the PA state museum. All their “modern” standard power is there plus some older stuff. A K, an M and L, several Hs, a couple of Es, a D and some B switchers. The only thing that really should have been saved that was missed would be an I “hippo” and a P5 electric and possibly a T1. Everything else is an odd ball.
No need to save a J, they were really C&O designs to begin with and C&O at least one. Excluding the J’s , after the M1, there really wasn’t any new, modern PRR frt power. A steam turbine, an S and a handful of oddball Qs. That’s it. No reason to save any of them. They were flops.
The PRR was building electrics while others were buying new steam. The successful electric designs, except for the P5s, all got saved, DD1, B, GG1, E44.
Only the tender of one of NYC’s Hudsons was saved. The Hudson was one of two (5311 and 5313)transferred to the TH&B in the '40s IIRC. The tender was saved and converted to a steam generator (#500). It was sold to the Green Mountain Railroad in 1987. In 2001 it was resold to a private individual who moved it to Scranton, PA where it was painted NYC black and numbered X5313.
This info is from Trackside around the Niagara Penninsula with Reg Button from Morning Sun Books.
One hippo was saved, it used to be outside the Westinghouse airbrake plant in Pittsburgh. it is now somewhere in NY state. the W&W rr here in Delaware sold them a M1 tender that was used as a fuel car in Hagerstown MD to put behind it instead of the short haul tender it was saved with. and the 1st P5 #4700 is at the St Louis Muesum of transportantion is poor condition. The PA state RR musesum at Strasburg should really make of effort to get it back home. instead of wasting a reported 30k+ rebuilding a very rotted wooden caboose over the last few years.
Only one big NYC steamer is preserved. It’s a 4-8-2 Mohawk in Transportation Museum near St. Louis. Remember Vanderbilt’s famous saying: “Public be damned.”
in addition, one ten-wheeler and a 2-8-0 survive in a collapsed enginehouse in the maine woods, 30 miles from the nearest road, and another 2-8-0 survives - as a santa fe engine! NYC sold it to the kansas city, mexico & orient in the '20’s,and in 1931 the santa fe bought the orient. also, don’t forget the michigan central 4-4-2 in the ford greenfield museum near detroit. IIRC, it’s on display in oklahoma. -arturo
oops-sorry. it’s the santa fe/NYC 2-8-0 that’s in OK, not the atlantic! -arturo
There is a NYC 0-6-0 in Utica NY. at the passenger station. It is located right next to the CSX main line. It is in excellent shape and can be viewed close up and from all sides. Also on display is an Alco RS 1 and I believe a Santa Fe dining car. The Adirondack Railway uses this station for it’s tourist trains. They use F units. Amtrak also stops here.
A Pennsy Hippo ( 2-10-0 ) is located at Hamburg NY (near Buffalo) behind an old passenger station, that is used as a model rr hobby shop. It has been repainted and is in good condition. It can be viewed very close up and from all sides.
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There are two NYC steamers up in the wilds of Maine, a 0-6-0 on display near the Utica, N. Y. passenger station, a Mohawk at the New York Central muesum in Ohio, and I beleive a 0-4-0T [for Dspatch Shots] near Richester.
Apparently, there is a P5 box cab in St Louis! Who knew? (not me…)