How do trains to or form NYC/Harrisburg reach their destination? Do these tains stop at 30th street station or do they go through. If they go through how do they do that. I never thought of this until now.
I believe all current Amtrak trains on that route stop at 30th Street - those going to/ from Harrisburg reverse direction.
Back when there used to be non-stop trains on that route, they would use a bypass at ZOO tower - it was called something like the “New York - Pittsburgh Subway”, if I’m not mistaken. But I recall that it’s not used much anymore, and may have even been taken out of service in the last 10 - 15 years as part of the ongoing reconfigurations and improvement projects, etc.
See these links for more info:
http://wikimapia.org/1578362/ZOO-Tower
http://www.signalbox.org/overseas/usa/zoo.htm
http://www.signalbox.org/overseas/usa/trackplan.php?name=Zoo&file=zoo.gif&size=300
You could also do some searches for “ZOO Tower” + Amtrak or Philadelphia, etc.
- Paul North.
Thanks for the info.
In olden times (1950s), when I was young, many a time I took one of the long distance trains from Altoona, where I was reared, to New York City and back. In 1957, the year that I graduated from high school, most of the premier long distance trains from the west or bound to the west by passed 30th Street and called at North Philadelphia. Several long distance trains, i.e. The Duquesene, Liberty Limited, The Red Arrow, etc. originated or terminated at 30th Street with connecting service from or to points to the northeast, i.e. Trenton, Newark, New York.
Last summer I took the Pennsylvanian from Greensburg to New York. The train stopped at 30th street, where the PS42 was removed and an electric locomotive was attached to the rear of the train. So most of the passengers rode from Philadelphia to New York facing rearward.
The Keystone trains call at 30th street, with only one or two calling at North Philadelphia. These trains are push/pull operations. At 30th street the crew moves from the locomotive to the cab car at the other end of the train. I don’t know whether they change crews in Philadelphia or whether the Harrisburg crew, for example, simply switches ends. Also, I don’t remember whether the locomotive was on the front or rear of the train from Harrisburg to New York.
I believe that Paul North is right about the line directly from North Philadelphia to the Harrisburg line; it is gone. Back when this bypass was in use, the engines were changed in Harrisburg. Now, with a
I believe that a similar operation occurred with C&NW trains being pulled backwards between St. Paul and Minneapolis.
If I’m not mistaken, Amtrak’s late, lamented Three Rivers (Nos. 40 & 41) traveled “backwards” from NYP to 30th Street, then “forward” to Paoli and points west. This may also have been true of The Broadway Limited in its last years. Of course, eastbound it was the reverse.
I sure miss both of those trains.
I don’t think that the line is gone from North Philadelphia as much as the station is not what it used to be…now SEPTA with no Amtrak. Another change from years ago is the push-pull equipment which sort of does not make 30St stop and reverse a backwards move except for the passenger.
The neighborhood around the North Philadelphia Station is the pits, and this is reflected in the station as well. Nevertheless, Amtrak trains 110 and 640 stop at North Philly to pick-up passengers for New York and points in between. Amtrak trains 649, 653, and 655 from New York and intermediate stop at North Philly to discharge passengers.
You are correct with respect to the Three Rivers; I cannot remember whether the same fate befell the Broadway Limited.
I’ve ridden through several times and would not think Amtrak would stop at North Philly because of the condition of the station and the neiborhood!
Back in my college days (40+ years ago) I also remember bypassing 30th St station thru Zoo. Looking at maps, it looks like it’s only a little over a mile between 30 th St and Zoo tower. It would seem that with push-pull equipment, maybe an assistant engineer could man the rear cab to guide the train back to Zoo interlocking and use the former connection to wye the train, so it could continue the second half of the trip in the forward direction. I have seen similar back-up moves done at Chicago, Denver and LA; and without benefit of rear cabs.
But why waste the time? Just be easier to have some of the seats set up in either direction for the few that find a problem riding backwards. Mostly commuters riding the keystones, so they’re not in it for the view.
I would not presume that most people don’t find traveling backwards annoying.
Trains usually have good crowds on them. Seems to be OK for them.
I think taking valuable travel time to turn the train would be more annoying…
Yes, since the Broadway Limited ran between NYC and Harisburg-Chicago, it was operated in the same manner as that of the Three Rivers. In 1989, my wife and I rode the Broadway from Chicago to New York, and the engines were changed in West Philadelphia (30th Street).
I did ride over the bypass in 1970, going from Chicago to Philadelphia, detraining at North Philadelphia and taking a suburban service train from there into the suburban station.
Well I would not expect them to ware t-shirts saying “Turn this train around”, and I’m not clairvoyant enough to know if the passengers are OK, annoyed, or just riding what’s available.
Blackberries work just as good when going backwards.
Actually there is still a track that directly links North Philly to Harrisburg but it is not used by any regular passenger train. Amtrak maintains that one track for turning equipment, mainly P42 locomotives. The only regular locomotive that needs to turn is the signal P42 that pulls the Pennsylvanian. After arriving from Pittsburgh, the locomotive is facing east, so it needs to be turned west for the trip back. Also, on the semi-rare occasion that Amtrak is short on electric locomotives, Amtrak will run P42/40s north of Washington to Philly on the Crescent and Florida trains. They usually run facing north, Zoo interlock is used to turn the locomotives for the return trip south.
Wow, it never occurred to me that after two hours people ride the rest of their trip “backwards.”