My recollections of passenger trains go back to the late 1950s and early 1960s. I was a passenger on one such trip and often went down to Omaha’s two stations on trips to pick up or drop off traveling relatives. My father also took business trips by trains. In all that time I don’t ever recall seeing a tail end observation car whether an obs/lounge or obs/sleeper or even an open platform tail car. Obs cars are standard equipment on most passenger car sets. When did these types of cars begin falling out of favor with railroads and was it because of the necessity to turn such cars which wasn’t necessary with the rest of the consist.
Hi -
I think it really depends on the railroad and the train in question. Pennsy ran the “Mountain View” and “Tower View” observations on the “Broadway” until PC days (early 1968). Milwaukee was using “Skytops” on the Morning and Afternoon “Hiawathas” until fairly late (say 1970). CB&Q-DRG&W-WP ran the dome-obs cars on the “Cal Zephyr” until its last day. The Q also ran dome-obs’s on the “Denver Zephyr” up till the start of Amtrak.
But I think you’re correct in bringing up the inflexibility problem - look at how Rock (and others) rebuilt former tail cars for mid-train use. DRG&W bought those C&O dome-obs’s and immediately set them up for mid-train use. The Rock’s use of observation cars continued after Amtrak, but only because Butterworth Tours provided the cars when they had a tour group riding the train.
Hope this helps!
Art
I’m not a true expert in this area but from what I’ve read, here is what I’ve gathered. Observation cars were usually reserved for the premier trains, the RRs ran alot of unnamed passenger trains in that era, most would not get an observation car with all its amenities. Not all observation cars were turned, some would end up with their rear end coupled to a baggage car facing to the front of the train. The Burlington ran alot of passenger trains but had only about 24 stainless steal (Budd) observation cars (that includes the 3 for the CZ). Many were assigned to the articulated train sets or to the Twin City, Kansas City, and Denver Zephyers.
Rick
It might be that the reason I don’t recall the obs cars is the class of trains my family road between Omaha and Chicago on the CB&Q. We didn’t have a lot of money nor either of my parents relatives so we likely were riding the secondary trains. I do remember my mother mentioning that only the Zephyr had the dome cars so maybe the same is true of the tail end cars as well. The train we road from Omaha to Chicago in December of 1959 had an early morning departure and we got into Chicago shortly before nightfall. I have been on the look out for CB&Q timetables from that era to try and figure out which train we rode. I would also like to know what time the California Zephyr made its appearance in Omaha.
Hello “je,”
The period you mention, the late 1950s and into the 1960s, was just about exactly when the observation car was falling out of favor with many railroads. It never entirely went away, as others have pointed out, but was being discarded on many roads because its inflexibility meant extra expense. For example, a passenger-oriented road like the Santa Fe launched new streamliners in 1948 (the “Texas Chief”) and 1954 (the “San Francisco Chief”) without observation cars. When the Santa Fe re-equipped its “El Capitan” streamliner with Hi-Level cars in 1956, there were no observation cars included in the new equipment. Around the same time, the “Super Chief’s” observation cars had their round ends squared for use as mid-train sleeper-lounge cars. Observation cars also disappeared from the Union Pacific’s “City” Streamliners in the late 1950s.
Some of the obs-car “holdouts” I used to see in my home town, New Orleans, in the 1960s were the Illinois Central’s “Panama Limited” and “City of New Orleans,” and the Louisville & Nashville’s “Gulf Wind.” An exception to the rule about observations marking top trains was the Kansas City Southern’s daytime local between New Orleans and Shreveport, un-named trains 9 and 10. They carried Budd tavern-lounge-observations the KCS bought second-hand from the New York Central. Of course, that meant there were some Central trains running without observation cars (if they were still running at all).
So long,
Andy
As noted above some psgr oriented RRs (GN, NP, CB&Q) ran obs cars right up to Amtrak (the GN on the “secondary” Western Star") while pro psgr Santa Fe got rid of them w/ one notable (and bizarre) exception. The connection for the main line-El Paso ran w/ a 2 unit gas electric/baggage for power and a coach/observation from the pre-high level El Capitan. The reason being that there wasn’t enough traffic to require a second car so the whole outfit could be turned on a wye at each end. Oddly enough, the notoriously anti psgr SP ran round end observation cars on both the Coast and San Joaquin Daylights right up to Amtrak
Ya it all depended on the railroad, the particular train, and the era. Many railroads only used obs cars on their top trains - they were usually reserved for use by firstclass (Pullman/sleeper) type passengers.
The Soo Line for example I think only had two observation cars, that they used on one of their top trains (I forget - either the Laker or Mountaineer). None of their other trains used an observation car. (BTW if a Soo obs car was in the shop, they often borrowed one from the Pennsy - the maroon of the Pennsy cars was very close to the Soo’s colors.)
Northern Pacific used observation cars on their top trains up until about 1966-67 when they got a new president who wanted to phase out passenger operations, he pulled obs cars from I believe all trains, even the North Coast Limited.
jecorbett
I got some info off of the Q list. The Coloraden left Omaha around 9:30AM and arrived Chicago 7:35PM.
Rick
If you like CB&Q streamlined observation cars here is a book you will like. It is well worth the money believe me and has some detail about when the cars last ran.
BURLINGTON ROUTE STREAMLINED OBSERVATION CARS: Burlington Signature Cars
By Jonathan J. Boyle Sr. This book chronicles the life of Burlington’s premier cars of the streamlined era, the observation cars that brought up the rear of the great trains and carried their names - the ‘signature’ cars of the fleet.
80 pages, black and white and color photos, softbound. $22.95
Dave Nelson
Thanks for the info but I don’t think that would have been the one. It was a long time ago and I was only 8 years old at the time but I am almost certain we arrived in Chicago in fading daylight. Chicago being at the eastern end of the Central time zone would have certainly been dark in December at 7:35. I suppose it is possible that my recollection Union Station in the daylight could have come from the return trip. I am 100% certain we returned to Omaha at night.
John
Of course one notable train which ran with observation cars right up until the end was the classy California Zephyr - right up until 1970.