OK a few weeks (or months) ago i posted a post called how do i get this piece of history or something like that. Any way being that they say C.M.&St.p. how old are they really but if you are wondering what they are the go by the switch to hold the siding rail in place or something like that. what was the day that the C.M.&St.P turned into the milwaukee road
It always was the CM&STP. The Milwaukee Road was an alternate name for it and the reporting marks were CM&STP if I am not mistaken. Its kind of like everybody calls the ATSF the Santa Fe but the real name is the Atcheson Topeka and Santa Fe.
The formal name of the Milwaukee Road was the Chicago, Milwaukee, Saint Paul, and Pacific (CMStP&P). Milwaukee Road was just a shortened and easier to remember name for it.
If the lettering is CM&StP (Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul), it probably predates the construction of the Pacific Coast Extension. I’m not sure when the name was changed to include “And Pacific”.
A small correction cacole, the M is for Milwaukee, not Minneapolis
It wasn’t always the “Milwaukee” and not always the CM&StP.
My June 1870 “Travelers’ Official Railway Guide” has it listed as the Milwaukee and St. Paul Railway, and shows it running to Chicago, but Chicago is not listed in any of it’s four division timetables.
Its nickname was the 'Saint Paul", spelled St. Paul of course, and is referred to by that name in De Roulin’s book ‘Chicago Union Station’.
To get to Chicago, the road incorporated the Chicago Milwaukee and St.Paul on April 1, 1872. It would build northward (towards Milwaukee) from where the Panhandle (Pittsburgh Cincinnati Chicago & St.Louis) coming up north along Western Avenue, turned eastward, and would use those tracks to approach the Chicago Union Passenger Depot from the north. Although the Pan Handle would become part of the Pennsylvania, as did the Fort Wayne - entering from the south, it would continue using the north approach for some time.
The June 1893 issue of the Official Guide shows it as the Chicago Miwaukee & St. Paul. The last issue I have showing that name is the February 1926 issue. The next one I have is the January 1930 issue where the road is listed as the Chicago Milwaukee St.Paul & Pacific.
So, wisandsouthernkid, your ‘piece of history’ is newer than April, 1872 but older (but by how much?) than 1930.
Art
well judging by the 75 LB rail that was dated 1896 that my pieces were mounted on so i am assuming that the date is quite accurate to the piece itself
What do you think?
I still find that it is interesting that the railroads reporting marks would be on the rail piece?
Careful there, about 15 years ago I saw a length of rail that had just come out of service (a siding someplace) that was embossed “Carnegie Steel 1896”! I wonder if that number was really the date of manufacture or something else (like a patent date?).
The “& Pacific” was added in 1928, at one of the reorganizations after a bankruptcy. So that would probably be the newest it could be. The tracks were put in through Iron Ridge before the Civil War by the LaCrosse and Milwaukee. Where exactly did your artifact come from? House track or somewhere else?
Rail is marked with the date of manufacture. There is a lot of old rail out there in sidings and such.
I don’t remember where this information came from, but I have heard that it was called the “St. Paul Road” before the Pacific extension as built.
In Canada the CPR used a lot of rail from it’s original transcontinental line to build branch lines in Alberta in particular and some in Saskatchewan. So you have rail dated for long before the branchline was ever built. Then some of this branchline rail was placed into yard service.
AgentKid
Didn’t the reporting marks for the CMStP&P become MILW?
The CMSt&P ended at St. Paul, and was called the St. Paul. When the Pacific Extension was built, St. Paul was no longer the western terminal. The name was then (or thereabouts) changed to the Chicago Milwaukee St. Paul & Pacific. The nickname, so to speak, was The Milwaukee Road. MILW was used as a reporting mark, but CMStP&PRR was also used as a corporate identifier. Someone else can perhaps provide the specific dates and finer points.