Ok, I really need opinions on a new set.

Classic Toy Trains Forum
1

I have been looking to buy a new set. up til now I have had pre war and post war stuff only. I have been looking at a few new sets. here are the ones I’ve been looking at

1 MTH Bantam N&W J pass. set

2 MTH Bantam Daylight set

3 MTH 2-8-0 Penn. pass set

4 Lionel Penn super freight set (cheapest Railsound set)

5 older MTH U.P. 49er pass set with 4 passenger cars (in the running due to $400.00 price tag)

6 MTH penn 6-8-6 turbine set (older but new in box)

7 Lionel NYC pass add on pack (to be pulled with my old 221)

ok, I’m open to new Ideas if you have any. I have been trying to keep in the $300.00 range and most of these can be had for around that.

I really want either Railsounds or Proto sounds 2.0. here are a few questions.

I know people say Railsounds is a bit better than Proto 2.0 but lets discuss Train sounds, proto 1, Loco sounds, etc.

someone said loco sounds kinda suck and train sounds are less than great, how is proto 1 aside from the battery issue?

does it do the synchronous chuff/smoke thing? I ask because the UP 49er is proto 1.

does anyone have the turbine? how is it? I kinda like the puffing and chuffing sounds does it just hiss and blow smoke? does anyone have the Rail King 2-8-0? it looks kinda homely in the photos, how does it look in real

2

Hello Scott:

For the money, I think the MTH starter sets are the way to go. In addition to the set you get a loop of track and a great transformer. All of MTH starter locos are Proto 2. They are great smokers. While not as good as RailSounds, the PS2 sounds are nice. The loco also has speed control which make for a very smooth running engine even in conventional mode. Finally, the engine already has the DCS electronics built in so if you decide to go the command control route, the engine even has more features just waiting for you.

As much as I like Lionel, their starter sets just do not compare, in my opinion.

Regards,

John

3

Had a MTH Bantum G2 [or 4?] Daylight Special. Ran great and sounds were great too. Pretty set. Somone in CA has it now and loves it.

4

A Lionel always.MTH makes great engines but they will not run without a charged battery. Put your set away for awhile and then the engine won’t run until you recharge.

5

I have bought and run #s 2, 3, 4 (in NYC colors), and 6. If I had to rank my preference, I would put them in this order:

3 - 2 - 6 - 4

I really like the MTH 2-8-0 engine, which is almost scale size and does not look too shrunken. All of the MTH models I list will share common features like DCS, excellent smoke (the recent Daylight even has a conventional smoke volume control), selectable chuff/rev setting (via DCS), excellent speed control (even in convetional), etc. All the MTH passenger cars will have interiors. But they also have inferior sounds to the Lionels. As pointed out they will come with an excellent starter transformer, can’t say the same about Lionel’s.

The Bantam 4-8-4 and 6-8-6 just look a little “off” due to the really small drivers. Their wheelbases are a bit of a challenge on uneven O-27 track, too. I downgrade the Turbine because it “chuffs”, which does not make sense for a Turbine.

The only thing the Lionel has over them is Railsounds. The engine is an old design with no command control capability. A real jackrabbit, too.

I’d be happy to sell my PS 2 PRR Turbine in good/VG condition (a few nicks) for $145 if you’re interested, contact me at the email in my profile.

NH Chris

6

http://cs.trains.com/trc/default.aspx?c=class&id=24

7

Hi Bob (Lionelsoni)

I have many times Thanked You for your knowledge and the help that you have offered on this forum, I have immense respect for You. I had to scratch my head though when I clicked the link that You provided on this one. [%-)]

Thank You Again for all your past contributions, and in advance for the Future help, that I am sure this forum will benefit from. [bow]

Doug

8

Jim

9

My Vote would go to the Pennsylvania Super Freight set, if it is the 6-30050 set that you are looking at. I have the 2-8-2 in the Union Pacific version, which unfortunately is not TMCC equipped like this one is. I REALLY like these 2-8-2s, the detail on them is very nice, they run super smooth even at slow speeds (mine does anyway) will pull just about anything that you can couple behind them on an average home layout. VERY NICE Locomotives, and this version is TMCC equipped.

I have an MTH 2-8-0, with PS-2, the detail is no where near as nice as the Lionel 2-8-2, and in MY EXPERIENCE, I have found the MTH Locomotives to be not as reliable as MY Lionel’s, others may have better experiences, but I have just about given up on buying anymore MTH Locomotives, my own 2-8-0 just today quit working, sounds and smoke come on, but wont move. My MTH 2-6-0(PS-1) has been DOA for quite a while now smokes when powered up, but no sound or movement.

In MTH Locomotives, Loco-Sounds is generally, sound only. Proto-Sound 1 (PS-1) is sound and remote control couplers, stop, put in neutral, advance throttle to 75%, blow horn once to arm coupler, second horn blast to fire (open) coupler, which can be done while moving (nice feature) Diesel switchers (and probably other two coupler Locomotives as well) will have a switch to select front or rear coupler, to change which coupler is activated, you have to pick up the locomotive and change the switch underneath it. Proto-Sound 2 (PS-2) Locomotives come with sound, remote control couplers, one QUICK push of the bell button then three QUICK pushes of the horn for the rear coupler, or one QUICK bell and four QUICK horn button pushes for the front coupler. And PS-2 includes DCS control.

A VERY IMPORTANT bit of advice with an MTH PS-1 or PS-2 equipped Locomotive is DO NOT LET THE BATTERY GET WEAK, it can and will cause you all kinds of grief, I have been told that is just a PS-1 problem, and have had others tell me that it is just a PS-2

10

NH Chris wrote:

The only thing the Lionel has over them is Railsounds. The engine is an old design with no command control capability. A real jackrabbit, too.

Again, if this is the 6-30050 set that you are asking about, this is NOT an old design, it is TMCC equipped (according to Lionel’s on line catalog), and I have the non-TMCC (darn it) version, and it is a very nice running locomotive. If NH Chris has one that doesn’t start slowly and smoothly, I would recommend that he check his transformer’s minimum starting voltage, as this is where the problem likely really is. I believe that Lionel did offer a separate sale non-TMCC Pennsy version (Locomotive only, not complete set) But this set does include a TMCC equipped version.

Also on the MTH Bantam sets, as I said, I do like the looks of them, but Jumijo is right they are very shortened, and the drivers are very small. These are no where near scale size, and definitely in the “TOY TRAIN” category, rather than scale. If I had more faith in MTH Locomotives, I would find a way to fit the SP GS-4 set into the budget. If you haven’t seen these in person, just in pics, I would try to see one before ordering one, some may not like the selectively compressed appearance of them. I still think that they are very nice looking, just be aware of the compressed size of them before ordering one.

In answer to your comment on how does the MTH 2-8-0 look in person, I mentioned earlier that the detail is not the same level as the Lionel 2-8-2, but what you might be finding “Homely” about them is the Belpaire firebox, which I don’t personally care for either, but for a Pennsy engine it would be correct. The Pennsy was a big user of Belpaire fireboxes, including their INFAMOUS K-4 Pacifics, which were always competing with their arch-rivals, the NYC Hudsons, a rivalry that was Legendary.

&

11

I’m no fan of MTH but I have to nudge the Railking UP 49er set. A good number of Railking steamers are squished all wrong in my opinion but they got the proportions right with this beast. It is drop dead gorgeous, smooth running and the cars look right with it. I think $400 for the set is a good price because that is what I’ve seen the engine alone advertised for. If its got loco sounds, that’s OK I guess. Looks are everything with this engine. Just don’t blow the whistle (it sucks). If it’s got protosounds 1, then go for it and be sure to charge up the battery before running.

12

ok, a few things.

first the 2-8-0 looks cheap for the following reasons. the wheels and side gear looks spray painted to me. the front of the boiler looks in the photos like the cast is worn and the edges are soft and the paint looks really thick. it just doesn’t look as nice as most of the others in the photo’s and isn’t the 2-8-0 a freight engine? did Penn use them on Passenger trains?

next I have seen the Daylight Bantam in action and after my post war stuff it looks much more scale than I’m used to, the N&W J uses the same basic casting so I won’t mind the size of it either.

next the UP 49er is Proto 1 and comes with a BCR installed and 4 cars.

the Lionel super freight set I haven’t seen. it is the most expensive of the bunch and probably one of the less flashy.

I am considering the 6-8-6- turbine set because it looks like I may be able to get it for around $100.00 and is proto 2.0 sealed in the plastic (new old stock from about 6 years ago or so).

obviously the cheapest alternative would be getting a decent set of NYC or Penn passenger cars and pull them with existing engines. I just thought the new sound systems were cool.

I think I’m going to rule out Loco Sounds, nobody ever says it sounds good. Train Sounds are most likely out unless something shows up really cheap.

so I’m left with Proto Sounds 1 and 2 and Rail Sounds. the Daylight and N&W J are much more flashy than the lionel and that weighs heavily in my favor, and I also wanted to get a passenger set. proto 1 sounds like trouble but with the BCR the UP 49er is still on the table. I just liked the Older looking Passenger cars in the Penn 2-8-0- set. the Daylight and J have aluminum era cars, so does the 49er.

in actual trains I really like the 20th century Limited with a Dreyfuss Hudson and the Empire State streamliner, and the Broadway Limited with the streamlined Penn engine. maybe I need to budget more money even if it means waiting a bit

13

Hello Scott:

It seems like you really want a passenger train. If so, what about the MTH Santa Fe F3 set? It is clear from many of the previous posts that there are a lot of Lionel loyalists out there. While I am also a fan of Lionel, I am not blindly brand loyal. For the entry level sets that you are comparing, Lionel falls short, in my opinion. My experience is that the entry level Lionel sets are more prone to problems than the MTH sets. With PS2, you will not have to worry about the battery issue like you would with PS1. Yes, the batteries may discharge, but charging an engine back up after a long layoff (more than a year) would only take about 30 minutes.

To me, it comes down to what you get for the money you pay. For starter sets, MTH has been offering a better package for some time.

Regarding the 2-8-0, I don’t know whether it ever pulled passenger cars, but I think it is a much nicer than the 4-4-2 Lionel foists off on the unaware. My consolidation runs great in both conventional and command mode. The paint job looks good to me.

I would recommend going to a LHS and have them run comparable engines for you to compare.

Regards,

John

14

If you go with MTH you WILL have battery problems. Remember we told you so.

15

Don’t use “we.” We will have to agree to disagree regarding PS2 engines. I can say from my experience that I have never had a battery issue with a PS2 engine. I have gone many months without running PS2 engines and they have started right up when put on the track.

Regards,

John

16

The battery issue is really no big deal with MTH PS-1 engines as long as you idle them for a few minutes after sitting a long time to charge them up. The ding, doink, routine with transformer handles to access features is a pain I agree but a person gets used to it. The worst that can happen is you scramble the board on some PS-1 engines if you run them with a dead battery. But that can be fixed with a board de-scrambler. If a guy shops around, he can find some pretty good deals on PS-1 engines. Like 30 cents on the dollar under origional cost.

17

John,its good that you have had good luck with the batteries but me and many many others that makes it “we”, have not the cure is BCRs at $25.00 an engine. and I have had enough. When they make a board that will let the engine start without a battery, I will gladly consider buy their engines again.

18

John, Sir James is correct in saying “WE” told told you, WE is a multiple but not ALL INCLUSIVE adjective, more than one of “US” has mentioned the BATTERY PROBLEMS with some MTH Locomotives. My 2-6-0 is still DOA, though I haven’t had time to work on it, my 2-8-0 is running again, had to replace the battery, it wouldn’t take a charge (after more than 2 hours setting on track at 75%+ throttle) You can replace the MTH battery with a standard 9V (what I did) but it wont recharge from the track power. The MTH rechargeable battery is $29.95 if I recall correctly, and even PS-2 WILL

19

Doug:

All of us have had our own individual experiences and one must remember that your experiences may not be equivalent to others. I did misunderstand Scott’s original post. The PRR Super Steam Freight Set is very nice. I like Lionel’s new O27 2-8-2 as well. Although on a scale of 1-10, I would give the mikado a 7 and I would give a 5 to MTH’s 2-8-0 (I would agree that Lionel’s 4-4-2 would be a 1).

It is undisputed that a battery is critical to operating PS2 engines. However, a battery is also critical to operating my television remote.

In additon to the RailSounds, the PRR set is also TMCC ready which is also a plus, in my opinion. In the end, I still think Scott should see the engines operate side by side in order to make the best decision for him.

Regards,

John

20

John,

I DID mention “IN MY EXPERIENCE” and also that “OTHERS MAY HAVE DIFFERING EXPERIENCES” this is another example where it was never claimed to be all inclusive, but what MY EXPERIENCES were, OTHERS MAY HAVE DIFFERING EXPERIENCES.

The rating of the appearances, was mentioned as a COMPARISON of THOSE THREE Locomotives, again, not all inclusive of the available products in the hobby. Of the three, the Lionel 2-8-2 is way beyond the MTH 2-8-0. It has true open spoke wheels, that neither the 2-8-0, or 4-4-2 have, open between pilot tubes, the rod and valve gear are not even comparable, as has been mentioned the tether on the 2-8-0 detracts from the appearance, the fine print and detail are much better. IN MY OPINION my rating of the appearance is justifiable, I have both and can, and did, compare both side by side.

A battery is not critical to operating ANY Lionel that I have, and I was not the only one to mention the battery issues, your remote control is irrelevant to this discussion.

And I did suggest that he try to see at least the MTH Bantams in person, before ordering, which is GOOD advice when ever possible before ordering anything.

My comments were clear that they were in MY EXPERIENCE, MY OPINION and though not specifically stated were never claimed to be ALL INCLUSIVE, just my thoughts, opinions and experiences with the items that the OP asked about.

I also would like to correct my earlier comment about the separate sale Pennsy 2-8-2, it also was TMCC equipped, the Union Pacific and the B&O versions were not TMCC, the Pennsy and the NYC versions were TMCC equipped.