I have two atlas solenoid switch machines that I would like to operate simultaneously. These control the entrance to my Y from the mainline. The momentary SPDT switch controls both the machines connected in parallel. Well, if I wanted to add a relay to operate a panel indicator and a line side signal, the switches don’t operate. I am feeding off the accessory AC connects of an Athearn DC supply.
Is there a simple way to do this? I have an old (RailPower 1300) supply with accessory terminals as well, could this work better?
You may want to either purchase a capacitor discharge unit or build one from plans that are available. With some power packs throwing more than two switches at a time will draw more power than the pack can supply. If you are using Atlas snap relays they go in parallel with the switch machines. The CD unit will supply more UMPH to throw the switch machines.
I built a capacitive discharge power supply with parts from Radio Shack for under $10. I still use the push and slide Atlas switches but they don’t give me an on track turn out position light. Have not figured that one out yet. I have two sets of double turn outs and would guess that the CD would throw 3 or more turnouts.
I went on lie at http://www.awrr.com/cdsupply.html and printed out the diagram parts list and directions.
This configuration gives me about 30V for a split second and won’t burn out the Atlas motors. I have not had a motor burn out since I built the CD system. If a button sticks the CD won’t recharge until the button is released.
I hopes this helps [:D]
Lee
P.S. If the link doesn’t work I could copy and post the three pages.
Each machine draws 3amps. Then add in the relay and you are probably 8-9 amps. The Athearn pack is probably rated at 1-2 amps continuous. Momentarily it will supply more, which is why you can drive the 2 machines with it. But is is not the best idea.
LION built 5 amp power supply, could still only throw two switches with one button.
Him tried the “Snapper” but that burned up and was not re-tried.
LION likes his Tortoises. Him can run any number of them, with their signals and any extra relays all with just one wire from the control panel. And Tortoise are so easy to install, once you throw away the instructions and do things my way.
Those twin coils are fairly low resistence, so a momentary 5 amps is not out of the question. The Atlas ones usually aren;t that high, but well over 1 amp. Some of the old hefty twin coil machines indeed were more like 5 amps.
If you ever had a setup with a single power pack running the train and also powering the switch motors, you may remember how the train would slow down when you pressed the button - momentary overload.
LION did not say that the motors take 5 amps. Him has 5 amp supply and could run TWO motors off of it but not three at once. Actually sometimes three would work, and other times not, this would depend on the conditions of the switch and the switch motor. Spray them liberally with graphite powder and you could get three of them to work, but it was not reliable. Track work and geometry has something to do with the equation too.
Anyway LION got rid of all snap switches, as they do not fit into my operating control system.
I’m sorry but I can’t visualize, an Atlas snap switch taking even 3 amps 3mille amps maybe, but not 3 amps.
The coils’ wire is probably a #32 gauge, very small. Of course I have been wrong before. Once or twice, or, maybe more, well we wont add them up. [:-^]
empirical results are empirical results. Three coils was the MAX that I could move with a 12 v dc supply with adequate amperage. Maybe 18 volts ac could do it better.
I am not good at doing electrical visualization. I like to actually measure things. What I have measured is 1 to 3 amps per Atlas snap machine. Most of the ones were close to 3 amps.
It’s all a matter of energy density. The cap can provide a near instantaneous jolt of about 1.4x the RMS AC input voltage to the circuit (assuming the CD supply connects to the AC terminals). It just cannot supply that amperage for more than a few milliseconds. So there’s a double benefit from a CD supply - more power to the switch motors, PLUS it only gets applied for a limited time. There’s usually a hefty (wattage) resistor int he circuit which serves to limit inrush when recharging the capacitor, this ALSO limits the amount of current that can flow through the switch motor if the button is held or sticks after the big cap discharges. When I built my one from Practical Electronic Projects for Model Railroaders to use on my N scale layout, I never again burned out another Atlas motor (and the N scale ones, at least in the late 70’s, were VERY fragile and touch - these had the metal covers which I suppose was an attempt to act as a heat sink but still they were easily burned out even if the buttons didn;t stick), and in fact if the button was purposely held down, they didn;t even get warm after a minute or two.
Did you really “get rid” of those Atlas snap switch machines LION? The reason I ask is that I’m an old fashioned guy who has quite a number of them and I need a few more as in about a dozen to power a bunch of turnouts that don’t have any machines. Can’t find any anywhere.
If you still have them, I’d be interested in procuring them from you for a price of course!
These will require some looking. Some were Model Power Switches which had to be cut off of the switch with a motor tool. When I bought Atlas switches, I always bought them un-powered. But I will send one of my cats through the boxes to see what he can find.
Lion: Yes, I am a huge fan of tortoise now, but this was from a time when I thought I could not put a tortoise in that particular place. I have self learned a lot of reliable ways to mount tortoises now, but I am reluctant to switch out. Kind of want a quick fix and move on.
Chocho: I have I would guess 10 working snap switch machines, since i went all tortoise. I also have screw kits (those come in bubble wrap) and the toggle control switches. PM me and I would be happy to provide them to you.
Rrinker: CD across the AC output seems like the thing to do. 1.4 RMS should in theory work as I can reliable operate two machines today on 1.0x RMS, whatever the AC supply output is on this power pack.
Lion: I don’t know what you did to burn up your Snapper, but I’ve been running a Snapper for 10 years with 22vdc input and throwing 6-7 Atlas switch machines at a time.