Against my better judgment, I’m thinking of running narrow gauge. But so far my searches have drawn blanks. I need 2 2-6-0’s, 2 4-4-0’s and a 0-6-0 to run my proposed pike in 1899. These engines would have been built in the 1870’s and 1880’s so we’re talking the small engines.
So far my search as brought up nothing–okay I found one loco for $800 and another for $1200, but I have an autistic son. He can get rough sometimes.
What are my alternatives. I have the two 2-6-0’s and it is easy to get 4-4-0’s right now in standard gauge. Is there such thing as a conversion kit?
I know just enough about brass to know that I don’t know enough to use eBay.
And what about rolling stock. Does anyone make anything for roads outside Colorado? Even unmarked? Or is it all brass and scratch building?
I stopped modeling narrow gauge for this very reason. And I even model Colorado where there is a much better selection of RGS, C&S, and D&RG equipment available. Right now the best thing for HOn3 is the Blackstone stuff, but as you point out it is Colorado prototypes and too new for what you want.
If I was going to start modelling narrow gauge today I would switch to Sn3, On30, or On3.
I’m into HOn3 myself. Those of us who model Colorado prototypes have been blessed with some great RTR stuff lately. Beyond that, it still tends to be relatively delicate kit- or scratch-built items.
You’ll have a heck of a time coming up with reasonably priced and rugged HOn3 locos in those wheel arrangements. Brass is the only thing in 2-6-0 and 0-6-0. MMI is supposedly working on a 4-4-0 that will be partly diecast, but it’s hard to say what decade it will be delivered in.
You might consider On30. You’ve already got track that will work, although true On30 track will give you more appropriate tie-spacing. You may need to revise paralell track spacing. There’s plenty of motive power and rolling stock available RTR. The main drawback is that space for structures is, relatively speaking, four times less than in HO.
To be honest, nothing is going to be easy in HOn3 for 1899. Most production is built around 1930s Colorado prototypes because that is what is documented and photographed. There are a fair number of HOn3’rs modeling other than Colorado, with Tweetsie and EBT and California having most of the rest of the attention.
For rolling stock:
Labelle makes several kits lettered for California narrow gauge lines. I’m not sure if these are generic prototype or accurate. Tiffany and other patent reefers were not limited to Colorado. Passenger cars are F&CC prototype as well as D&RG.
Railway Engineering makes a plastic kit for a Carter ventilated box car - a California staple.
The Blackstone cars are now coming unlettered as well as Colorado lettering. But be careful of prototype - most Blackstone production are accurate models of cars after they were rebuilt in the '20s. But Blackstone does say in their literature what they modeled. I did buy Blackstone flat cars myself.
Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff makes generic cars, as does Rems Railroad Models.
Rio Grande Models has an extensive line of kits for Westside Lumber, as well as MOW equipment (some generic, some D&RG), Carter Brothers flat car, and an NCO reefer.
I’m sure there are others I’ve missed.
For non-brass locomotives, it gets harder. Practically everything is out of production:
MMI is actually proceding with production of their Baldwin 4-4-0. It is coming in many versions, a few of which will be CA prototype. When it will actually be delivered is anybody’s guess. Price is expected to be around $350 -$400 (I think). Mine guess on delivery is 2010 or 2011. PSC/MMI realizes the game has to be stepped up to compete with Blackstone. A D&RG 0-6-0 is on the “some day” list.
FED 4-4-0s and 2-6-0s. Out of production, made in '70s, low end brass available on eBay
I don’t have much narrow gauge but most of my friends are narrow gaugers and I know the scene pretty well through their modeling adventures. Mike and Fred pretty much nailed it in the posts above (Personally, I doubt MMI will ever come out with the 4-4-0). Most of the loco options Fred mentioned are a hard road to go…
You might consider the approach I have taken which is to take the narrow gauge attitude and apply it to standard gauge.
The prototypes I model that I use this approach with include the Yosemite Valley, Hetch Hetchy and the Sierra Railway. I get to have run down, dodgy stuff (like narrow gauge) while enjoying the relative abundance of materials available in standard gauge HO. There are many lines that you could model besides those that I have mentioned including the V&T, Pickering Line, the Northern Pacific etc. Around the era you are looking at there are tons of soon to be decrepit short lines in CA and elsewhere.
The beauty of this approach for you is that you can use the Spectrum small locos and get away with a passable fleet of motive power without breaking the bank. You can also take advantage of all of the small rolling stock producers out there offering pretty cool stuff for your era such as Westerfield and Rio Grande Models among others…
I think that that would be the best approach. There were a fair number of narrow gauge shortlines even up here that ran equipment that were just converted over to narrow gauge and literally run into the ground. And as previously suggested–a lot of short narrow gauge RR’s modified as they saw fit–which is one aspect of some prototypes that keep getting overlooked[:-,][:P]
I would model it using standard gauge. If you decide to do something else you have way more options on what to model (not that you would ever change your mind).
Just one more addition: unless you are buying brass models of geared locomotives, the real going prices appear to be in the $350-$500 range for everyday used brass steam models - both narrow and standard gauge. I see higher prices being asked, and occasionally paid on eBay, but the stuff that sells on consignment shelves and in ads is in the range I quoted.
Now whether that’s too high or not is a personal matter, and probably should be viewed in a relative light. What do the alternatives cost in terms of time, money, and skill?
In HOn3, the Blackstone K-27, which is made bythe same Chinese factory that makes Bachmann, scored by having the 1st well detailed model locomotive that could be run on most layouts right out of the box. There were some returns and problems due to quality control issues, but I think those will be corrected the next time around - a C-19 2-8-0. The Blackstone K-27 is in the $350-$400 range with DCC and sound.
I was just reading a past issue of GMR [yea, I am still reading them] and one person wanted to do narrow gauge, but found options in standard gauge that still worked well. Another story is the Colorado Midland RR. It was essently a standard gauge RR in narrow gauge territory. The last case is my RR. It follows the same rule as the CMRR. The point is you can still have a standard gauge RR that goes in the same territory as a narrow gauge RR without any major differences. I will quote Kurt Mirusch Sr.
The point is this is your hobby, you do not have to follow the prototype exactly. Just sit down, relax, and think about this for a minute, and then make your decision.
Here’s one point I haven’t seen raised: everyone always says, “The only readily available rolling stock in narrow gauge is Colorado prototype, so I’m going to stick with standard gauge.” Well, why are you only unwilling to compromise with 3 scale feet between the rails? I mean, if you want to model a California narrow gauge line and your options to do so feasibly consist of modeling the gauge accurately and running Colorado-y motive power vs. going to standard gauge and having more options (though still no accurate ones) for locomotives…there’s tradeoffs either way. And while there are MORE locomotives available in standard gauge HO, they’re still not really close to being accurate for the 1899 period - even all of the Spectrum locos, while very nice, are much too modern and would take heavy modifications to be plausible for that timeframe.
What I’m saying, I guess, is running K-27s on an HOn3 NCNG doesn’t seem any more outrageous to me than running Richmond 4-4-0s on an HO NCNG. Also, Blackstone’s C-19s will be out sometime next year and they should be somewhat easy to backdate. And by the turn of the century, consolidations were the mainstay on most narrow gauge lines anyway.
I think HOn3 is a fine scale/gauge combination - it’ll take some work, but it’s a hobby, it’s supposed to.
I picked 1899 because the NCNG acquired Locos #4 and #5 and 4 tankers. Of the 5
#1 Baldwin 4-4-0 built 1875 #2 Baldwin 2-6-0 built 1875 #3 Baldwin 4-4-0 built 1877 #4 Porter-Bell 0-6-0 built 1875 #5 Baldwin 2-6-0 built 1875
I already have the two 2-6-0s in standard gauge and expect the 4-4-0s to be easy enough to obtain. I’ll start with the stock items, and up date them as I find more pictures.
The 0-6-0 is a puzzle, but I’m told I can get in the ballpark by putting a “Jupiter” body on an MDC 0-6-0 mechanism.
I guess you figured that I decided to go standard gauge. I haven’t figured out the rolling stock yet. I’m making it up as I go. I know that the MDC old time stuff is too big. I might make smaller cars with standard trucks. Again, I haven’t thought that through yet.
There are quite a few makers of HO resin or wood car kits that are appropriate for the late 19th Century. White states that the average life of a wood freight car was about 15 years. So you would be looking mostly for stuff that is from the 1880s and 1890s. The MDC old time is actually sized about right for new in 1900, but the details like grab iron locations and so on represent a later era.
Based on that, if you can get them at a reasonable price, I would use IHC/Bachman/Tyco/Model Power/Roundhouse “old time” equipment as operational stand-ins until time allows you to build the better detailed and more accurate kits. This way you can have enough cars to begin operations early, then replace them as your concept/layout/operations proves itself out.
Labelle, BTS, and Alkem are fairly widely known as producers of standard gauge car kits for the era. And within the Early Rail Yahoo Group, there have been several start-ups for very nice resin car kits, including an 1887 30ft MKT gondola/flat, a 34ft St Charles box car, and others I don’t recall off the top of my head.
Many of us, especially those who have been in this hobby for a while, want to follow a prototype as closely as possible.
I think most of us are smart enough–and have been hit over the head enough times with the “Do whatever you want” philosophy, which everyone (including you) seems to say as if it is an exciting new idea–to know that this is not a requirement.
Those of us who do make a commitment to model a specific prototype are well aware that some compromises will be required.
Ok this is not a real big problem, as I am also starting to model in HOn3. You can get freight car from BTS Bill make civil war cars that you can use and paint up in the color you want, so that take care of cars, now for engines PSC which is a brass company is now making engine that is both brass and die-cast, and cost about $300 retail, and they are going to make a 0-6-0, they also make engine that are painted but not lettered. Getting track is not a problem nor is getting turnout either, or you can make your own. Blackstone is making freight cars in RTR, and also engines, but most of what they make is for Colo narrow gauge, but they do make engine with sound that are RTR and that are also unletter but painted. They are also making RTR cars that are weathered which is nice.
I am going to model West Virginia in narrow gauge but I am going to use what I can get and letter the engine and rolling stock in my own road name. I hope that this has answered some of your questions.
just a few thoughts from the other end of the world.
I used to be into narrow gauge modelling for many years. Here in Germany, we have a fairly sized variety of locos and rolling stock available. Roco, Liliput and Bemo have a good selection of German, Swiss or Austrian prototypes in their portfolio. Numerous small companies also offer a good choice of rolling stock and accessories. From a supply point of view, there appear to be no limitations. There are 3 issues that made me give up narrow gauge modelling in favour of HO standard gauge
Cost
NG stuff is sold in lesser quantities, hence you have to pay premuim prices - a Bemo RTR NG steam loco is between 800 - 1000 $. Technomodell coaches are from 80 to 100 $, each.
The cost of NG modelling in my experience is about double of the cost of standard gauge equipment.
Performance and Reliability
I find the performance of NG locos a lot less refined as you have with good standard gauge locos. You can somehow compare it with N scale of the early days. Most of the locos just look good, but when it comes to operating them, a lot of fine tuning is necessary. Also, you have to exercise a lot more care laying your track. If you run DCC, stalling engines due to signal breaks are just “normal” unless you spend a lot of time on maintenance and cleaning.
Size
I am in my mid-fifties now so my eyes are getting old now. If I had the space i´d go into O or even I scale, so HO standard gauge is already a compromise, but a workable.
In all the cost issue was the key reason for me to move back to HOstandard gauge.
That era was a period of many gauges, but it was a period of adjustments as well, as some narrow gauge lines bought up or whatever, they converted to standard gauge, you could easily make the excuse the road converted over just to help being compatible to your needs, but just say your line did but follows the prototype designs.
The other comments in this thread are good as well.