I’m looking to build a small On30 layout in my bedroom, and I don’t really know where to begin… I’ve worked with HO scale in the past, and am somewhat lost with the transition to O scale… Any advice that I could get as to where to start with the designing and building process would be great. I already have an idea of where I want to base it off, just can’t seem to figure out how to actually start planning it. Any advice you guys could offer will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
How big is your space?
On30 while it runs on HO track requires more clearance that HO. The trains are about the size of S scale standard gauge. This means wider track spacing and over head clearance. Thus fewer tracks than HO.
Buildings in On30 are still buildings in O. These are almost twice the length and width of HO which means the building requires a foot print 3.28 the size of HO. Thus quite a bit fewer buildings than HO. And / or more shallow relief buildings against the back drop.
Bottom line is that for your space you need a simpler layout than you might have in HO.
Good luck
Paul
Not a lot of information here to base advice on. Starting with design:
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Is this to be around the walls, a 4x8, a shelf switcher? What do you envision?
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What kind of narrow gauge operation are you looking for? Common carrier like the Colorado railroads? Logging? Mining? What region? Do you want to railfan your layout (sometimes called “spectator”)? Or do you want to perform mainly switching operations? Do you want continuous variety in your operations? Or is the routine operation supporting a single industry OK with you?
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Are you primarily a builder or an operator?
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What size engines do you want to run? A K-series Mike or 2-6-6T need much bigger radius curves than an 0-4-0T or critter-type engines. Car length also plays into this. On30 has full-size models of 36ft freight cars and 50ft plus passenger cars. And now Bachmann and others have a series of 18-22ft cars. Depending on equipment and desires, minimum radius to keep stuff on the track can be anywhere from 15" to 24".
In general, On30 needs more space between parallel tracks than HO, and more vertical clearance. Prototype narrow gauge track arrangements were generally very simple. Relaxed track plans with decent scenery just seem that much more realistic. Ballast was pretty minimal, and could often be dirt (cinders if coal was used as fuel).
Timewise, narrow gauge was the “latest and greatest” idea for railroads that couldn’t get land grants or good financing in the 1870s
The space I have to work with is about 11x12.5ft. , and most likely around the walls.
I would like to try and have some operational ability with it, maybe between 2 small towns with a couple small industries to provide work between. It will be based in the Newport-Jamestown, Rhode Island area, so it will be a freelanced fictional line.
I don’t plan on running anything larger than a 4-4-0. I’ll most likely have the 2-4-4 Forneys as my primary road engines.
I’m not sure the full length rolling stock would look acceptable, so I’ll probably be running the shorter length stock.
I’m not sure how wide(how far out from the wall) I need to make my shelves/modules to allow for adequate space for track, and scenery, and what I should aim for regarding max/min radii on turns.Would this space be enough for an out and back with a turntable at one end and a loop at the other, or just a point to point?
Thanks for all the info stated above, and any additional you may be able to provide based off this response.
One consideration is which type of narrow-gauge you want to recreate. There were a very few actual 30" gauge railroads in the US, mostly industrial railroads like moving things around large factory complexes, or in some logging operations. 2’ or 3’ was more common.
Some On30 equipment is based on 2’ gauge trains that existed before the Great Depression, primarily in Maine. Many HO modellers use N gauge track to model 2’ gauge trains, N gauge track works out to be about 30" gauge in HO.
Some On30 equipment is based on 3’ gauge trains, which was the most common narrow gauge. Although many states had it, the most famous and long-lasting has been the 3’ lines in Colorado. Most Bachmann On30 equipment is designed to be able to be converted to On3 pretty easily.
One nice thing about O narrow gauge is that narrow gauge trains normally served relatively sparsely populated areas, so tended to serve small towns with small buildings.
I have about 11x12&1/2ft of space to work with. I plan on making it an around the walls type layout. In my case I will be both builder and operator. I’m aiming for a combo of ops and railfan. I would like to try for a dogbone with industrial sidings, or an out and back with a turntable at one end, and loop at the other. It will be set in the newport bay area of Rhode Island, and I was hoping to have a combo of light passenger travel, and local freight. I dont plan on using anything larger than a 4-6-0, and that even will be rare. The Forney and Porters will be my primary road engines, so my guess is that I should be using at least 18" radius as the minimum? No full length rolling stock. Mostly the shorter stock. I think it would look better in the small space I have to work with. What would anyone reccomend for shelf/module depth(distance out drom wall)?
I guess that my first question is,(Why are you switching to O gauge with such a relatively small area ? Are you planning on a tilt or lift-out entrance to the room? I happen to have a 24’x24’ around the room garage loft layout with an inside stairway, in HO scale and found that some curvature radii were 20",for yards. I started with a small layout with preplanned expansion over 8 years. I just completed building over 400 deciduous trees, using a crate of Scenic Express Super Trees for the fine branched armatures. Bob Hahn
The room is actually 12.5x13.75ft. Ive restricted to 12.5x11 so i dont need to worry about liftouts. And I wanted to do something in narrow gauge, and HOn3&30 i feel is just too small, and its a little outside of my feasible price range at the moment. Also, with HOn3/30, its pretty much all D&RGW from what Ive seen, which I don’t really feel like doing.
The Forney is going to be your limiting motive power - I believe it needs 22" radius instead of 18". I would check with Bachmann to make sure. The Bachmann passenger cars (the oringinal On30 ones) were meant for 18" radius using HO train set track.
The radius is going to drive how much space the turn-around loop is going to take. 18" radius means about 42" minimum width; 22" radius means 50" minimum width. Typically, a return loop also needs a length equal to 3x (2.5X at the very minimum) the radius, which is going to eat a lot of length along the wall. If you can possibly arrange it, a lift out or gate or hinged section which allows the line to go along all 4 walls will usually give a much better continuous run.
Aside from the return loops, I like a 2ft maximum shelf depth due to physical reach limitations, especially in the corners. 2ft depth on each leg means a 34"+ reach into the actual corner. This reach can be shortened a few inches by having
Thanks Fred. You’ve given me a lot to considder. Some stuff I’d never even thought to do(testing with the boxes). That i think will really help as far as deciding how best to set this up in there. And I will definitely do some more research into the Forney, and those layout designs you suggested. I really appreciate the advice, and thanks again.
Another possibility to think about: joining an On30 modular group and building On30 modules.
After researching On3, On30, Sn3, and HOn3, I decided on HOn3 myself. On30 has far more RTR and kit locomotives, cars, and details than any of the other narrow gauges. But I didn’t like the size of the buildings and scenery in On30 when I was most likely to have a shelf layout in a shared spare bedroom for the foreseeable future. I was beginning to think I had made a mistake because all my (4) HOn3 locomotives (no Blackstone) need significant work to run as smoothly and look as good as I would like. Then I encountered my HOn3 modular group at a train show.
We now have a group of about 17 guys, most of whom live in the greater Denver area. Most have 1 or more module sets that conform to the club’s HOn3 Free-mo spec. We have set up as far away as Cheyenne, WY. We are trying to see if we have critical mass to set up at the 2014 NNGC at Kansas City. Typically, we do 4-5 setups a year with a 30ft x 40ft point-to-point layout or bigger. Our most recent setup was for 5 days at the Arapaho County Fair at the end of July. Due to the freedom of Free-mo, and the number of module sets, no two layouts are the same.
I know there are similar modular On30 groups and clubs around the country. What I am suggesting is that you consider joining such a group, and using your bedroom wall space to store, work on, and operate your modules when not at a setup. It’s much more fun than I ever expected, and I’ve learned a lot by being around some great model railroaders - even if it is Colorado-centric!
Fred W
…modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it’s always 1900…
Picture Gorge & Western Railway “none more picturesque!”<
Lots of good advice here. Have you invested in On30 (On21/2) motive power or rolling stock yet? If not, you should do a lot of thinking first. You are invested in HO, I assume, from a previous layout or layouts. Again, the question already asked, why go to O gauge?
I had this same issue back in 2009 after being in HO since 1959. I have a ton of HO stuff on hand. I will admit to buying tiny bits and pieces of HOn3 stuff over the years hoping to, one day, leap into narrow gauge as it has intrigued me since the 70’s. It wasn’t until after a long moribund period of 1995-2009 of no MR activity that I saw the Blackstone product. That was it! DCC, Sound and fabulous detail, flex track and lots of R-T-R stuff dragged me back into MR and my narrow gauge dream was realized. I, too, was somewhat space limited and the On30 was very inexpensive at the time, motive power wise.
The decision to go to HOn3 turned out to be an easy one as I had HO space, but not O space. By staying in HO scale all of my old HO figures, cars, trucks and many structures could be used or bashed at no additinal cost. Try pricing out O gauge figures and structures.
Luckily, all my old HO roads (6 in all) were in the 1930’s-40’s steam era. So cars, trucks, people and structures could be readily re-used in HOn3. If you were a 60’s and later HO guy on your old roads then you might not have the period specific scenics on hand surplus.
Before leaping across scales, look at what you have in HO already. You can model a good deal more activity in your space in HOn3. As I am doing a fantasy road in HOn3, I am looking at bashing some older time period HO rolling stock to HOn3. It is nice not having to follow a prototype and creating a nice little road of your own.
My road is still very much a work in progress. Good luck on whatever you decide, but welcome to the narrow gauge worl