First of all many thanks to all on this forum. It is an absolute goldmine of information for beginners like myself.
I think my question will be a bit of a let-down after the explanation I need to give it, but here goes!
I use momentary-on toggle switches to control my turnouts. In general the track layout is easily transferred to the control panel: flick the toggle up and the train goes to the “up” route, flick it down and the train goes to the “down”.
On my layout there are a number of situations where the diverging route of one turnout is joined directly to the diverging route of another facing the opposite way. In this situation both turnouts need to be thrown at the same time: if a train runs over the diverging route of one t/o, the other t/o MUST be set to diverge also or we get a short and derail. This diagram shows two parallel tracks with two turnouts facing each other (Really! It does!):
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In these situations, I have one momentary-on toggle switch controlling both turnouts, which works very well. So far so good!
The problem is that the position of the switch no longer relates to the track itself. If a train approaches from the right on the lower track instinct says to flick the toggle “up” to set the diverging route, and that would relate to the way the track really is. However if a train approaches from the left on the upper track, instinct says I need to flick the toggle DOWN to transfer the train to the divergent route.
The problem is I can never remember, without eyeballing the track, which way I need to flick the toggle. When navigating a series of turnouts I find myself going “flick up, flick up, flick up - now here’s one o’ them dang double divergents - does that go up or down?”
Our club has a standard that up is always for “straight though”, on either track. Down is for “crossed”. After a while one doesn’t even think about it any more. The brain adapts.
You might also consider labelling your crossovers (that’s what the pair of turnouts is called) on your panel – a dab of red paint, or paint the switch handle, or something similar.
I suspect most folks use up for straight, down for cross. But whatever seems right to you (and anybody else who operates on your layout), do it that way. Just be sure to do them ALL the same way!
How about using one switch for each turnout, with both switches controlling both turnouts? With a momentary contact there shouldn’t be any problems with the turnout motors burning up, or you could create a simple connection that simply ignores the signal if the turnout is allready set…
You could also expand this idea if you have several designated routes running through a series of turnouts. Add one switch for each route, and set all the turnouts with just that one switch.
Instead of a SPDT or DPDT toggle, I have always used two SPST pushbuttons (Momentary, N.O.) I had the exact same issue and I solved it by swapping the color of one of the pushbuttons.
The Black PB was for “turnouts are inline” aka normal mainline config.
The Red PB was for “turnouts are thrown” aka the mainlines are cross connected, aka NOT normal.
Also, you can put labels / Pictures next to them:
= for inline and a modified % for cross connected.
Thanks all. Seems everyone is of a similar opinion! Up = straight thru. Yes, the idea of painting or somehow marking the crossover switches seems to be the way to go, at least until I can install indicator lights.
The push buttons are a very good solution. Use three push buttons on the panel, 2 for straight through, and 1 for the cross-over. Either straight through push button does the same thing - thows both turnouts to straight through. The push button on the crossover throws both turnouts for the crossover route.
The only caution I would give is that make sure the push buttons have a decent current rating for longer life, especially since they will throw 2 switch machines at the same time. A capacitive discharge unit would prolong the life of your toggles, push buttons, and switch machines while giving you a good, brief surge current to throw both machines at the same time.
Rotate the toggle 90 degrees with toggle showing the dirction of travel, the diverging route. ie left if the train, traveling forward, would diverge to the left, right if the train would diverge to the right. The other position would be straight. This makes it intuitive from the engineers point of view.
What I use for my turnouts (including cross-overs), is a toggle switch (on-on) and a momentary-on (normal off) push-button. The toggle’s position indicates which way the turnout has been thrown. For cross-overs, as others have already suggested, a toggle in the “up” position means the turnouts are thrown for mainline running; and “down” for crossing over. Since I have some cross overs in close proximity to turnouts, the crossover push-buttons are red; where the push-buttons for all other turnouts are black.
The problem with the on-off-on (normal off) toggles is that you can’t tell how the turnouts are thrown (unless you have another way of indicating it).
First off take a leaf out of the real railways book and wire the points to work together!, With a capacitor discharge unit to make sure both sets of points work together {you have probably already done this part}.
Having got the points to work in correspondence with each other now make sure when the switch is pushed up the points are set for the main line this is referred to as normal so put a letter N above the switch. when you want to use the crossover pull the switch down this is referred to as reverse so put an R at the bottom of the switch.
Now go through all of your points and make them the same so that up is for the main and down for the diverging route and mark them with the same N above the switch and R for the bottom of the switch lastly make sure all your points toggle switches are black and any for signals are red.
Tilden - I did in fact think about rotating them 90 degrees. It makes sense and I may experiment with this during ops to see if it’s intuitive.
John Busby - A good idea also. I’m not sure if my brain will respond to throwing the switch “up” for mainline if the mainline is “down” on the panel though. Or am I just confused?!
It is exactly the way signal box panels for your lot NZR and my lot WAGR, make their panels it doesn’t matter which way round the main line is the switch is always up for the main line (Normal) and down for the diverging route (reverse)
It goes back to the old lever frames when up put the lever up right in the frame (Normal) and down put the lever at an angle towards the operator (Reverse)
This followed on into Electric interlocking and switching along with some of the terminology that goes with it.
It can take a little getting used to when you don’t work in railway signaling, but once you have your head around it, works every time
But at least remember black switches for points and red switches for signals which incidentally work the same way up for normal (red) down for reverse(green)
Hi John, This makes good sense. What about in yards, where there is no mainline? I have an entry/exit line off the mainline, then a ladder yard off the entry/exit line.
Yard entry follows main line, diverging route in previous post
Other yard points would normally be straight through Normal curved route reverse
There can be local variations to this but these would be noted in the general appendix and the working time tables for the area.
Curved and “Y” points if you have them would follow the spirit of the normal reverse notation which would be worked out on a location by location basis