One last Zepher DCC contoler question

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
21

Well, next time I will make sure I say hello!! I was rather preoccupied trying to help the birthday boy get round the layout. Ken normally would not run the layout on a Wednesday like that but the family had driven all the way from Wentzville to see it in action. I just volunteered to help guide them round the 2 main loops while Ken worked in the store. My youngest was with me so he had to run a train as well [:D]

I was asking Ken some stats on the layout as I had never really discussed with him the Digitrax implementation that he has.

The whole layout is about 4800 ft square. The total main line run if you take one loop after the other is about 550’. There are several huge yards and dozens of industries. Running the thing he has a DCS100 Command station and 7 boosters. There are 2 radio receiver panels handling the wireless. There are no dead spots in the room. (He used to have only i receiver and there was a dead spot at one end). Very long trains can be run usually double headed but often tripple. The longest we ran yesterday was about 20’. In a regular operating session 25 trains can run at the same time without getting too much in each others way. Anyway, I thought this was kind of interesting as it shows you the scalability of the system.

22

Another good point, Carey. It takes at most 6 button pushes to key in a full 4-digit loco number, at least with Digitrax and NCE. If you locor number is only 3 digits, like 501, now it’s only 5 presses. So pressing a button 30 times to get to a previously selected loco addresses is better how? Even on a system designed for Europe, where many trains use more the 4 digits for the number, it’s still fewer presses to key in the number on the side of the loco than it is to scroll through some sort of huge list. I think I used the recall stack on the DT400 once, just to see how it worked. The recall stack on the DT400 is actually configurable to be 4, 8, or 16. The default is 4, which is actually quite usable, you can pick from any of 4 previous locos with less button pressing than keying in the full number. But get beyond that and we are back to where it takes less button pressing to just key the dang address in.

–Randy

23

All that keying gives me a headache. On the DT400, pop a few buttons, turn a knob and CLICK! done.

24

Well I apologize if I made it sound like I was trying to “sell” Ken on Lenz. I kind of rushed that response and maybe could have worded it much better. It just dawned on me that for $11 more one could get a 5 amp system that seemed to do the things that Ken wanted to do. No way am I going to try to sell someone on my system. You’ve got to know a great deal about a person and their situation before ever attempting that.

Like I say, maybe my presentation sounded like a sales job but the list of Lenz features was something that I had typed up earlier to help me consider a possible change in my system so I just copied it. Sorry about the German thing. I copied that from another website, but the “rock solid engineering” thing is a fact. I don’t care where it was engineered if it works well.

Let me say that I love DCC. I’m fascinated and intrigued by it. I look at many DCC threads regardless of the brands mentioned because I’m anxious to learn more and more about it. So, Paul, I appreciate your comments (and have a question about this 2.5 amp thing - see below). I sincerely appreciate your comments Paul, and a lot of other comments from people like Texas Zepher, rrinker, simon1966, cjcrescent, tstage and many others. For me this forum is for sharing, helping and informing and that’s great. And that was w

25

You can have lots of volts. You build up insane amounts of voltage petting a long hair cat on a carpeted floor in winter time.

But it’s the Amps that kill. You might get a shock and nuke that cat with the hand trying to pet it too much when voltage overcomes resistance. But grab hold of a humming feeder line on a transmission tower you are going to be toasted very quickly and burnt before you realize what’s happening.

A radar jammer in a car only puts out 1.5 watts of energy and barely interferes with a police radar gun 5 inches away. A military jammer on a B-52 puts out enough wattage to kill birds near or fry people on the ground. Such a device can kill police radars for 50 miles.

Does that help?

26

jwils1,
All I’m saying is that if one went to a N-scale topic, and started to list the benefits of HO-scale, what kind of reaction would one expect to get? Or what if one went to an auto forum’s Chevy thread, and listed the benefits of Ford? Or went to a computer forum thread about IBM’s and listed the benefits of Apple?

The only logical reason that I could see to do so is to either to sell someone on the other product, or belitte the competition for fun. And since it doesn’t appear to be a mean spirited smack down on Digitrax, I assumed you’re trying to convert Ken to Lenz. [:)]

As for the DT400R and the “plug in” problem, I talked with the Digitrax rep. at the Springfield (MA) Show last month, and while he couldn’t promise a date, he stated that he thought that the Digitrax duplex radio throttles would be released this year…still using a 9v battery and getting typical Digitrax radio range. He said that right now, they have a prototype working, but they want to get the radio range over 100’ if they can before they release it…right now it’s more like 25’. He seemed confidant that this problem would be solved soon.

As for the 2.5amp vs. 5amp question…
The big deal is modern equipment (non-sound) vs. old school stuff. Most any modern designed loco with a can motor uses something like 0.5amps under spinning wheel conditions, if that. Under normal operation, that amp rating may be something like 0.1amps, maybe 0.25amps. IOW, it ain’t much. Now, in the old days, using old Athearn drives with metal trucks and “silver” motors, each loco would use a full 1.0amp…sometimes more. Old brass, old MDC, old Varney, old Mantua, old Hobbytown…any of those all-metal, open frame motor jobs could easily take a 1.0amps.

On my HO layout, on a typical night, I’m using 2 or 3 Atlas S-2’s, a Stewart AS16 (it’s not mine), Atlas R

27

Paul:

Thanks for your response. For your info, I almost bought a Zepher a couple of years ago. The only reason that I didn’t was because I had an Atlas Commander (made by Lenz). By going with Lenz, the Commander gave me an extra throttle, and I got 5 amps which I thought would be best in the long.

I follow many of the DCC threads because I do hope to buy a second system someday so I want to know as much as I can about all of them. And, with my Lenz experience I can sometimes be of help to those with questions.

Keep in mind that I’ve been thinking all along that 5 amps was the best way to go. So, when I realized that Ken could get the extra 2.5 amps for only another $10 or $11, I thought he should be aware of it. I posted in a hurry (because my wife was waiting for me) and simply but put up a list that looked like a Lenz sales pitch. I can understand why you take it that way.

Now that you have clarified the 2.5 vs 5.0 amp thing that makes a lot of difference. That was very informative and helpful for me and I’m sure for others, including Ken. I’ve never really heard it explained that well before.

I have 8 sound units, and when I power up they all come on (very annoying) and I have to methodically turn each one off every time I start operating. My units are all fairly new so it sounds like I would be fine, even with 2.5 amps.

Now, what you are saying about a possible Digitrax duplex radio DT400 is going to be really exciting news for many people. Don’t know what the cost might be but this could be a huge selling point that will overcome a lot of people’s previous objections to Digitrax. Not that they really need any more market share!

Thanks again for your help.

28

Jerry, thanks for the information and will re read later at work. I saw Lenz on Tony’s Trains and like the idea of a 10 warranty. Glad someone that has one spoke up about it. Like I said I will read all of the posting again and think about the pro’s and cons.

Zepher is out, with the TH400 thottle it cost more than the Empire bulider at K-10. Empire Bulider is $279.99 + $43.00 for 5 Amp power pack. Zepher is $149.99 + $185.00 for the TH400? I will double check but I believe he has a Super Cheif with radio for $450.00. Hum, I like radio control.

Thanks for all the answer’s fellow MRR’s, and don’t pick on the Lenz guy. After all, I am running a Bachmann E-Z! [;)]

Cuda Ken

29

Jerry, thanks for the information and will re read later at work. I saw Lenz on Tony’s Trains and like the idea of a 10 warranty. Glad someone that has one spoke up about it. Like I said I will read all of the posting again and think about the pro’s and cons.

Zepher is out, with the TH400 thottle it cost more than the Empire bulider at K-10. Empire Bulider is $279.99 + $43.00 for 5 Amp power pack. Zepher is $149.99 + $185.00 for the TH400? I will double check but I believe he has a Super Cheif with radio for $450.00. Hum, I like radio control.

Thanks for all the answer’s fellow MRR’s, and don’t pick on the Lenz guy. After all, I am running a Bachmann E-Z! [;)]

Cuda Ken

30

Good deal.

You dont want the Super Empire Builder. Trust me. Those CV’s need to be read. A 5 amp Chief will do you very well. Just remember that the power supply likely will be seperate purchase. ( I think, mine was seperate)

31

I hope he’s not selling DT400’s for $185, MSRP is $180. Now a DT400R with radio for $185 would be a good deal. But to do radio you also need the radio receiver.

Strange though it might seem, the Zephyr plus DT400 is actually a much more capable system than the Super Empire Builder.

–Randy

32

jwils1,
About your sound units… Are they QSI equipped? If they are, you can “shut down” the loco so that you don’t have to manually turn them off all the time. You double-click F9 once, and it goes to “Disconnect” (sounds all work, engine doesn’t move). Double-click again, and it goes to “Stand By” (engine goes to idle, other sounds don’t operate, engine doesn’t move). Double-click one more time, and the loco goes to “Shut Down” (engine shuts off, all sounds don’t operate, engine doesn’t move). To start it up again, double-click F6 once, and she’ll start up from “Disconnect”, “Stand By”, or “Shut Down”.

The nice thing about it is that when “Shut Down”, they don’t make any noise when the layout is powered up. None.

Otherwise, you can simply hit F8 to mute them (on most sound decoders). Your system should remember that when you power it down…so when you power it back up, then locos will make about a second or two of sound before they get the message that they are supposed to be muted.

Oh, and I should spell it out before I forget… All sound decoders that have capacitors will draw “In Rush” current even if they are “shut down” or muted. One way to get around this is to have your engine facility wired to a toggle so that one can isolate the locos and prevent them from drawing power when they are not in use (it’s also a good way to keep them muted).

Hmm… 8 sound locos on a Zephyr? I think it would be ok for “In Rush” current, but that would require testing to make sure. Or, like I said, a delay circuit of some kind would also do the trick (someone over on the Atlas Forum posted a diagram to do-it-yourself).

Paul A. Cutler III

Weather Or No Go New Haven

33

Paul:

I do have a couple of QSI units and am familiar with the F9 shut down, although I often forget to use it.

Even when everyting is muted and I shut down, when I power back up all of the sound comes on and stays on until I mute again. Maybe this is unique to Lenz. Lenz tells me there is no way to prevent this, at least on their system.

I have 7 other non-sound locos and I assume that they draw no current until they are running. Of course, whether sound or non-sound I would very rarely have more than 2 or 3 locos moving at the same time, and normally have no more than one sound unit turned on at any given time.

Wow…I just noticed that I’ve been spelling Zephyr incorrectly for a long time.