I’m modeling on/for an urban layout. I’ve been looking through some N.P and G.N. books, etc. but see a lot of concrete retaining walls but so far no cut stone. (Seattle, Portland, Spokane).
I’d really like to use cut stone on my layout but would like to know if it was just rare or completely non-existent here.
If pics are possible that would be extra helpful but just knowing locations or a reference would be a great start.
Thanks. Happy New Year to you and yours!
I’m retired in Texas now but I grew up in Bothell in the 1950’s and remember when there was quite a bit of railroad activity on Seattle’s waterfront, when there were still rail spurs onto piers on Alaskan Way. I don’t recall seeing any retaining walls of anything other than concrete. I also lived in Portland for 25 years and only recall concrete walls there, too. Can’t say for sure about Spokane.
Thanks ssgauge. That seemed to be the general consensus with the two or three guys I’ve asked 'round here. I was surprised. I asked what was used prior to concrete and they said probably timber. I thought it likely that at the least, during the WPA/C.C.C. era of the '30s that some random stone or cut stone R.R. retaining walls must have been built but no luck. Guess I may have to use some modeler’s license once again…
I grew up with the N.Y.C. and the Pennsy look, back east so have a fondness for stone. But I’ll use concrete in my city areas and elsewhere and confine the cut/random stone to just behind the R.H. unless I hear of any other Pacific N.W. useage. Maybe I’ll check out Vancouver and Victoria, B.C. just out of curiousity.
Cheers.
My only visits have been to the Marias Pass area where the walls I have seen are all concrete. But there is a possibility that these may not date from the original construction. Encasement in concrete is one of the simplest repair procedures for a masonry wall or pier that is showing signs of distress. I have found a picture showing masonry bridge piers at the Oregon Short line crossing of the Snake River, the photo caption stating it was taken in the 1880s. (P.18, This was Railroading, by George Abdill).
North of the border, CPR used quite a lot of masonry retaining walls through the mountains to build up a roadbed. Many are still visible today so if there is no sign of any in your area, maybe indeed masonry was not used for that purpose.
Just my thoughts.
John
Thank you John. I was thinking of using the opposite idea that the masonry work was overlaid on the pre-existing concrete, by the city fathers to spruce their retaining walls up. My layout is based in the 1940s, so the W.P.A. or C.C.C. work programs were the likely time this would have been done.
I have to say that I was completely surprised that cut stone/random stone retaining walls simply were never used in the P.N.W.
Thanks for adding your info. from Canada. I’ll keep researching but it’s sounding like it’s probably not going to turn up anything along the lines of what I had originally envisioned.
Kinda like life in general ! Cheers.
I would have to say that West of the Mississippi overall, cut stone railroad structures (retaining walls, tunnel portals) are extremely rare, mainly because by the time railroads were established in the West, after the original timber structures got replaced, construction technology had already advanced to the stage where concrete was more feasible.
Also, the railroads in the West needed to use the speed and efficiency of their infrastructure construction as a selling point to customers, and concrete was a faster and less expensive way of building such structures.
Scenic express has some very nice stone wall material called flexiwall. Great looking stuff.
Thanks metro red line and H.B.
Yes, that makes sense concerning the time frame for replacing timber(s).
I love Scenic Express stuff and have ogled the walls you mentioned. I’ve got a curved wall so I’m trying
the new Chooch flexible wall products lst. If I feel too “guilty” about not using concrete, I’ll look around for
another product then. I think there can be more “guilt” involved with “proto-lancing” than with either
prototype modeling or freelancing entirely!
I just today had to make a track laying change to get a broader radius on for an underpass track so it’ll be a
couple of weeks before I see what else changes before installing the retaining walls.