What’s the different between a Peco electrofrog and a insulfrog turnout? And what turnout is the best one to use on a DCC layout?
Insulfrog!!!
I’ve used both on a club layout built with code 100 rail that is designed to operate from either conventional DC block control or DCC, and on a home layout using code 83 rail that runs only DCC. The difference between the two types involves only the frog area, so the wiring of them is the same.
A simple way to determine if one needs any special insulation or wiring is to connect a power pack to the point rail end and measure the voltage at the other end on both directions as you throw the switch from one position to the other; or use a VOM’s continuity check feature to determine what happens when the turnout points are moved.
.
I cannot see putting up with stalls on insulated frogs just to simplify my wiring. But then I believe in running smaller locomotives more appropriately sized for my short train lengths, and routinely performing switching operations. Under those situations, insulated frogs will cause stalls, and usually sooner than later. I don’t understand the reasoning behind installing feeders every 3 feet for extra reliability, but deliberately leaving an inch long unpowered section of track on a turnout. Powered frogs are worth the effort to understand track wiring, and adding gaps and feeders where needed.
yours in living frogs
Fred W
I have a code 100 peco insulfrog. It shorts with metal wheels because there isnt enough separation between the rails where the insulated portion of the frog ends.
I have a code 83 electro frog and I like it but dont care for the stamped points. For the price I think they could have actual rail for points. It runs fine though.
I used clear varnish on my frogs to further insulate them, problem solved.
If I did it all again I’d use code 83 electrofrog for reliability.
Ken.
Simply whether the frog is plastic or metal… A insulfrog with its plastic prevents short circuits from power feeders on tracks connected to the frog.
There is no best (otherwise they would only make that one). Insufrogs are much easier to wire. In fact, there basically isn’t any wiring. For an electrofrog one must use insulated rail joiners or gap the rails leading to the frog to prevent short circuits. Then to prevent dead spots a feeder wire is often routed to the frog track(s). Locomotives will not stall going through a powered electrofrog.
The insufrogs have the tiny problem of the insulated part between the two diverging rails being too narrow so that a wide wheel can short the electricty between them. As others have stated there are fairly easy fixes for this problem. Sometimes depending on the wheel base and power pick up arrangement of the locomotive it can stall if the critical wheel just happens to be on the plastic part where there isn’t any power.
atlas snap track is insulated frogs, its more toy like, you could set up on the floor
and have trains running quick. Then put it away (as a kid)
no wiring necessary.
If your building a serious layout, forget the toy qualities.
Your going to do wiring, and controls. You want that reliability.
Stalling on an insulated frog breaks the illusion, and the ole benchwork basher go to work…heh.
I found that on only one #6 so far, and knew what to do thanks to you kind folks here on the forum. While I had the can of polyurethane out, I did the other frogs…just 'cuz.
-Crandell
My 2 cents worth from experience building my DCC layout with Peco:
If you want to eliminate stalling with (mostly older) engines having
less than a full set of wheel pickups, a properly wired electrofrog
is the way to go. Certainly it took more work to prepare and install
35 switches. But I have many types of engines and none stall; also
hundreds of cars with metal wheels and none short. So I would do
things the same way the next time.
I used Tortoise motors. The frogs are wired through the auxilliary
contacts. There is a nine siding ladder wired this way which works
reliably.
My steps for preparing a Peco electrofrog:
- remove spring, required with slowmotion motors
- cut both links on underside
- add jumpers from stock rails to point rails at the tie gaps
(not mentioned in the paperwork)
If you don’t do the last step, you are depending on the point rails
making good mechanical contact with the stock rails for power, not a
good thing.
Even on a DCC layout, I believe it is important is to divide the
trackwork into blocks. This allows using circuit breaker modules so
a derailment short in one area won’t shut down the whole layout. I
set the block boundaries to isolate areas like the roundhouse, yards,
and stretches of main lines from each other.
If BLI and LifeLike locos with QSI sound decoders will ever be used,
I recommend TT Power Shield breakers. By experimenting, I learned
that NCE EB3’s (and, I hear, Digitrax PM42’s) can’t reset more than
one QSI engine (without a lightbulb bypass) after removing a short,
making it necessary to kill power. A Power Shield can reset five and
more QSI’s in less than a second. I know of one large club layout
using PM42’s which has banned BLI/LL locos because they want to stick
to a particular brand of DCC equipment; makes no sense to me.
Hal