You probably remember the topic regarding a beautiful layout that featured Penn Central. Many posts were made, mostly positive but some “seemed” to question why would hobbyists model the PC since the prototype was a financial mess and Conrail was born as a result. Paul3 and I had friendly disagreements over “why or why not” model PC. Seemed like that some of the posters that didn’t like the Penn Central for understandable reasons, however, looked “down” on those that admit to modeling PC or owning cars that have those “worms” on the side.
I talked to the “regulars” at my LHS. I was very, very surprised to learn from the store owner, Kevin, that nearly every single “quality” freight car kit or locomotive in the Penn Central scheme that was shipped to Happy Hobo Trains store SOLD OUT within a short time! The reason? Many of the customers that are in the “over 35 age category” saw Penn Central trains as kids and now want to model them, even knowing the full history!
Just thought I’d share this as I even questioned myself as to why I liked Penn Central but then came up with the same answer over and over… This was the railroad of my childhood! I didn’t see union or management corruption. Didn’t see money or equipment being pilfered. From a 3rd floor apartment I just saw lots of cool looking freight and passenger trains cruising by on a 4 track mainline in a deep ditch.
Paul3 jokingly referred to the E33s as “Mishapen Bricks.” I doubt that most railfans seeing these things back then hauling 100 car freights at 60+ m.p.h would have called them that.
I hope to have my “PC” Metroliner bodies finished soon. I ordered a PDT II Self Powered Truck for the lead car to replace the Bachmann truck motor.
Right on, Antonio ! For the life of me, I could not bring myself to hate a particular RR, mostly because I love the darn things… but I can sure dislike the lousey management that brought wreck and ruin to a particular Line or Road.
P.S. Before my 22 years of “military”, I worked a short time for the NYC, then I became a Penn Central employee… until the “RIF’s” started.
I was once one of the NO PC on my layout, but I have since grown into liking the PC look, the main problem is the best representation of Swampwater Green was Flouqils but they no longer make that color in the regular line. I was able to find four bottles of Scaelecoats PC Green but Floquil’s still looks better. I currently making decaling some X71 and X72 boxcars and building an X79 from a Railyard Models Kit. I am also planning some PRR X58 PC repaints along with some covered hoppers.
It would sure be nice if the Model Manufacturers would make the PS 4785 Covered Hopper as the PC had a lot of these in their X54 class.
PC-I am too young to remember NYC, PRR and the NH, but growing up in the midwest I saw PC trains until 1976. The thing about people not liking PC is that it is not the “glory” railroads that went into it. There is a romance when you say NYC or hear PRR and NH, but PC represents the failure of the romance to many. PC is a part of our history and it deserves a chance to be modeled. After all in 1974 how is youre Water Level Route going to move freight! PC-love it, hate it, model it. PC, in the days before it meant personal computer
I can’t remember PC as a going concern, but I can remember seeing lots of Conrail equipment still lettered for PC in MD, PA, and around DC when I was a kid. That was the era when I fell in love with trains, but I fell in love with the old Southern Railway, which just sort of segued through the Dark Decade without ever fitting into the age of disco, malaise, and bad corporate art. The estimable W. Graham Claytor no doubt had something to do with that. But the slight visceral distaste I have for the '70s is by no means universal, and I could see how you could want to model it.
I wonder if anyone modeling the PC would try to catch the gritty “Welcome Back, Kotter” look of that time that I can remember seeing in the Northeast: factories with windows broken out, graffiti, chain link, ugly, rusting cars? Grit is an underestimated quality in modeling - not just weathering, but the seamier sides of life. I don’t often see them, perhaps because we don’t want to depress ourselves while pursuing a hobby. I chose to model 1913 Colorado in part because I couldn’t think of anything bad that was going on at the time, but when I start sketching out scenes to be modeled in my notebook, I always find myself rejecting say, strikers confronting the Colorado National Guard; it seems too sobering. I find the urge to be gently funny is far stronger: am I alone, or is this a general feeling?
Has anyone ever seen (or built?) a Depression-era layout with a bread line, strikers, or apple sellers?
Keep in mind also that a given piece of PC equipment will be correct for either PRR, NYC, or NH, and with a simple repaint (is PC black really just a primer? [:D]) you have a model that may not be available already painted for your predecessor road.
Antonio… Sorry for my delay in answering, but I see Ray has already answered your question. Yeah, in those days it was sort of a “sick” little lottery… while standing in line to pick up your pay check you would pass by the newly posted RIF list, then you would know if you would be there for the next pay check ! The mis-management was truly monumental… all the while everyone else was busting their backsides to “hold it together”. (Just some more Fallen Flags…) Bob
A friend of mine worked for the PC during this time and he told me the bank by the Airline Junction Yard had a special line for PC employees. They would only cash checks as long as their was money in the PC Account.
My best memories are of watching PC roll trains through Anderson and Muncie, In. with every type of diesel on the head end. I hated the black paint then but I’ve used it as one of my color schemes. Having only PC, NW and C&O navy to see, any time a foreign road unit came thru, I’d go nuts trying to get a pic of it. Then I’d go back to watching those old, black PC units, not realizing until it was too late that I was seeing the history of 1st gen diesels with my own eyes!
I was a bit disappointed that there were not more pics of PC units in the MR article. I’ve seen plenty of PRR and NYC units, show me the black!
PC will always be special to me, my uncle worked for them, their yard was 1/2 mile from my house, and I would give anything to see some historical society restore a couple of PC GP-38s!
And Antonio, just between you and me, I have 2 PC units, a U33C and a GP30, just waitng for a few GP38s to come along and take a freight of jade green boxes east!
I never look down on people for modeling that “wormy” railroad. [:)] I may give them the business sometimes, but I’d never disrespect their modeling. What I did was question the reason why someone would want to model a complete and utter failure when there are thousands of other roads to model in 3 different centuries to choose from. The reason I heard most often was that it was what they remembered as a kid and that they didn’t care if it was a “bad” railroad, it had a cool equipment roster. Sigh…
I don’t know if you noticed, but items “selling out” isn’t such a big deal any more with limited runs. But it does go to show that there are a lot of depressing modelers out there that like decay and bad times, or like to pretend that none of the problems existed. [:)] Whatever floats your boat, IMHO. Just don’t expect me to leap with joy when I see the “mating worms”. [;)]
And my childhood of the 1980’s would be Amtrak, MBTA, and Conrail. While I do have some MBTA equipment (modeled for the 1990’s when I was riding it every day), I don’t have Amtrak or Conrail equipment, nor do I want them. Why? Because they were boring as all get
Actually modeling the PC would be very good as one would have to run their trains at a slow speed like the prototype due to the bad trackage. That is why the PC baught so many GP-38’s they could not take advantage of the high horsepower units that could not go over 20 miles per hours due to the trackage.
Paul, as always with well thought out responses. Thanks for correcting me on the “E33 Bricks”.
----------Wuf! Sorry there Paul, but got to disagree 100%. Depressing modelers!!!-------------- Geez! Most people that meet me say that I remind them of “Mahoney from Police Academy” as I like to joke around alot! I go out of my way to play pranks on co-workers…They sure seem to enjoy it!.
As for me, Crazy! Whacky!..YES!, but depressing? I hope I’m not!
Modelers that I’ve met that model PC seem to be Cool, Down To Earth people!
Depressing? At 41, other than a grumpy old vendor at a train show, I’ve yet to meet “Depressing PC Modelers”.
In Toledo the PC had some in street trackage on Water Street which ran next to the Maumee River. This was the last cobblestone street left in Toledo. The joke was: How could an Engineer know when his train derailed on the Water Street Trackage? When the train was running smoothly.
I still like working on my PC cars and will be doing some engines in PC - Atlas U33-C and a Brass C-636 along with a couple of F units.
Good perspective.
Paul3 also mentions George Sellios’s beautiful Manchester layout and points out that it is a fantasy version since Paul has spoken to people of that time period and found out that things were not quite as extreme as portrayed on the Manchester layout. I’m guilty of thinking along those lines too, though opposite of Mr. Sellios.
I would use some grit in the form of perhaps one or two “Downtown Deco” kits as these sure remind me of that time! However, I prefer to model more of the positives of the 70s. Plus, many of the mid and small sized towns around the U.S were relatively clean places as today.
It was not all grit, guys. And yes, I was around and already a newbie modeler by 1976. I even rode on the Penn Central with my parents in 71. The trains were clean!
We still had muscle cars, the AMERICAN BUILT Pontac Trans Am and Chevy Z28 were
Penn Central was an interesting peice of history.I modeled it for 10 yrs and caught flack every time I turned around.I moved onto Chessie a few months ago.After awhile you get tired of the all black lokies.I hated what PC and Conrail did to the PRR in later years.Carved it up like a Thanksgiving bird.They should have called Conrail New York Central since most routes were based on the old NYC routes.They also killed off the Erie Lackawanna by shutting down Maybrook yards.Penn Central is neat to model but a bad part of railroad history.Dan