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Phillips: Amtrak 188 investigation needs engineer’s memory
This may be a stupid question but, was anything like a rock found inside the cab of the engine? If a rock was thrown through the cab windshield, maybe it would still have been in the cab somewhere?
George, the info so far has been that nothing came all the way through the windshield. It did it’s job.
“must also consider political and public relations factors”
This sounds ominous.
Having two persons in the cab would cripple the already-strained finances of most passenger rail operators in North America and would hardly improve any safety record. Actually, studies have shown that having more than one person in the cab is a distraction. In the Aldershot,ON derailment that hapened in 2013, there were three people in the cab (including an engineer trainee), and that none of them remembered that the approach signal seen before the station stop was displaying Clear-to-Slow and ran at full speed through the 15mph crossover.
I think everyone already knows what caused this crash and for some very strange reason are afraid to say it. The allegation of the engineer that “I can’t remember anything” is way beyond incredible. He just didn’t observe the speed restriction.
Somehow, I think Brandon may have simply “zoned out”, much like highway hypnosis. The ability of him to operate the train safely in that impaired state was compromised to the extent of grave consequences as we know. If I were in his shoes, “I do not recall” would be my final answer.
I remember reading the NTSB report on the head on wreck of two PC Trains at Herdon, Pa.in 1972.one of the trains passed the end of a siding and hit the other head on. There were at least 2 men in each engine. I don’t believe that they came to a conclusion as to what happened because all of the engine crews died in the wreck. I believe there was a similar wreck at Muncy, Pa. in the Conrai era.
An object doesn’t necessarily have to go through the windshield to be a huge distraction. I don’t think anything about the investigation will be “ominous”, just reality in today’s climate.
JF, can you name the specific “studies” that you’re referring to.
I see that the conspiracy theories are already running rampant in the great state of Florida ! I must ask if “I do not recall” is a sample of political jargon ?
@CHARLES STARK - I’m not aware of anyone denying the engineer didn’t obey the speed restriction. What puzzles us and continues to puzzle us is why.
one of the strangest things I find about this mess is that NOTHING has been said about the computers that ultimately control all newer locomotives, this one included. What’s to say some yayhoo isn’t sitting out there scared shitles* that the authorities are going to find out just how he managed to hack the computer controls and caused this mess with his bungling of the control commands. the other thing I find that puzzles me also is why doesn’t anyone else, within the FRA and other investigating agencies, as well as my fellow rail fans realize that in this day and age with all the computer systems being hacked, it’s possible the locomotive controls were hacked. Think about all the operations that are monitored remotely. If another computer can question a function of the locomotive computer wirelessly and remotely, why can’t it also send another command to the locomotive? It is possible that a computer can lock out manual override if programed to do so. then the only thing you can do is CLT, ALT, DLT.
@LAWRENCE G HAWS - It’s rare that safety critical software is linked to a public network, and indeed it seems highly improbable that any of the software controlling the locomotive is connected to any outside-the-locomotive network at all, with the exception of the relatively tightly locked down networks that form a part of PTC.
Even if the locomotive were hacked, the NTSB has apparently ruled out any malfunction of the locomotive, and it would be difficult to disguise a hack as anything but a locomotive malfunction.
I… I hesitate to use the word “impossible”, but I can’t imagine any circumstances arising where this could be done and nobody would know.
If the NTSB ruled out a malfunction of the locomotive it means they did investigate it. It certainly is one of the possibilities that came to mind immediately afterward in a number of conversations I had.
I would have thought that if there were a mechanical problem, the engineer would be on the radio right away and would have dropped the train into emergency. Neither of those things happened (not for almost a minute later in the case of the emergency brakes).
Given what we’ve heard, the only conclusion I can come to is that the engineer lost awareness of where he was due either to distraction or fatigue (which he says he wasn’t). We’ll see. That will be the NTSB’s puzzle.
I will go out on a limb and say what a lot of people may be thinking. This guy notched it up to gain speed knowing full well that the curve was ahead. I think he was attempting suicide and chickened out at the last moment! Its just too convenient that he can’t remember anything! For those of you who think it was a software glich, Wouldn’t he have put the train in emergency stop??? Rock through the windshield? Same thing, Stop the train! Any number of things and all of them would motivate a person to do ONE Thing! Hit the brakes!
Sir, You not only went “out on a limb” but made yourself sound like a very ignorant individual. Out of all the comments made, you’re the only one that thinks this young man attempted to commit suicide. You haven’t mentioned any FACTS that would point to that.
(1) You don’t know that a “lot of people may be thinking” this. I certainly haven’t !.
(2) You say that “It’s just too convenient that he can’t remember anything”, Well you’re not a doctor, are you ?
(3) You don"t know exactly what incident would cause a trained engineer to "put the train in emergency stop !!!
I don’t believe a rock hitting and (not going through) the windshield would warrant this action.
(4) It’s always been my understanding that hitting the brakes is used as a last resort, because that action in it’s
self could cause a derailment of the train
(5) My suggestion to you would be to wait until the NTSB investigation Is completed (by trained, professional
individuals) rather than ‘jumping’ to unfounded conclusions.
Just imagine you’re an engineer in a chair looking out the front of your train at normal track, it’s just dusk, then out of nowhere a big rock hits and shatters the windshield. You instinctively dive down, and in doing so just the throttle full on. Quickly you scramble up, see the speed and turn, and dump the train into emergency. But the crash happens.
Just sayin’…
Complete the install ATC on the NEC, of course. But we also need to redo the NEC’s 19th & early 20th-century design features. That includes realigning the curve at Frankford Jct. It has no place on a 21st-century, high speed railroad.
Michael and John, I think both of you have made very logical, worthwhile comments, Very good " food " for thought !
@ Christopher Parker and Paul Harrison- RE computer glitch or hacking. The sad reality is that is CAN be done and has been shown to be possible in a number of settings and industries. It could also have been a simple computer error. And if the computer is at fault but doesn’t see it as a “fault”, then there is a slim chance they will find it on a first look. These modern locomotives do all kinds of things you wouldn’t expect them to do when the computer commands it. While a tragic case that people love to jump to conclusions on- I am not ruling out operator error OR a problem with the engine.
The most plausible explanation at this point is that the engineer simply made a mistake in where he was on the railroad. He very well may have thought he was past that curve when he wasn’t, which explains the acceleration just before he dumped it into emergency. He wasn’t texting, he wasn’t suicidal, he didn’t get shot or hit by a rock. He just made a mistake. Often unmentioned by the press is the fact that he was pretty inexperienced on the NEC. I read one account that he had only been recently reassigned from the West coast only a few weeks before. It takes a long time to learn the territory. This is especially true when you are going really fast, at night.
As to his lack of memory, it sounds to me like he got some good legal advice. He is looking at multiple counts of involuntary manslaughter (causing a death through gross negligence). That’s going to be a lot harder to prove if he doenst say anything.