Given I have a point to point layout with a hidden loop at each end–okay a loop to loop layout.
Assuming that I have a computer hooked to a Zephyr
Is there a way I can rig things to run a train continously without my intervention?
Hopefully without a lot of dinero.
Chip,
Correct me if I’m wrong. I thought Digitrax made a DCC reversing loop module that would automatically reverse the polarity - unlike the manual switch needed using Cab control.
Tom
But there are the issues of the turnouts. The sensor, I suppose could both reverse the polarity and thrwo the turnout, but what about next time you came around. It would still be set to the way you exited the loop.
You always ask good questions, Chip. Tom is correct about the reversing module, but then you are correct about automatically switching the turnout, once the train has entered the hidden loop. I’m not aware of any thing that will “automatically” switch the turnout, but perhaps someone has experimented with Digitrax train sensor modules, and you put the sensor about two thirsd or 3/4 s of the way around your hidden loop, and when the sensor senses the train in it’s area, some how throw the turnout. Perhaps one of the forum’s DCC sensing experts can contribute an idea?
Don’t you like running your trains any more? You want the computer to do everything for you? Ops was always fun for me…
Yeah, Chip, I see what you mean now.
Hmm. I wonder if there’s a way to wire the turnouts so that as one opens, the other closes simultaneously. In other words, as the locomotive enters inside loop A, turnout A closes behind it but opens for the reverse loop. Simultaneously, turnout B (at the opposite end) opens, leaving it ready for the locomotive coming from the opposite direction. Now, as the locomotive enters inside the loop B boundry, turnout B closes behind it but opens for the reversing loop, while turnout A opens simultaneously for the return trip. Does that make sense?* (*Modified - I didn’t word it very well the first time.)
I know I read that Interlocking towers used to work that way prototypically so that when one particular switch was opened, a subsequent switch or switches were also opened to keep the cars and locomotives from going down the wrong track. There must be a way you can do that digitally.
Where’s Randy???..RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANDY!!!
Tom
John,
I do like ops, but I also like to let the train run while I’m working on models. I like the sound of the train running.
A simple solution would be a photo electric cell and a light source throwing the switches. But you would want to be able to turn the automation off.
Hi Chip,
I think there is an example of this in the Digitrax “Big Book of DCC.” I’m on the road and didn’t bring it with me (I brought Model Railroader, N-Scale magazine, Model Railroad Bridges & Trestles and Building City Scenery, but not that). The good news is that it did not involve a PC or software. The bad news is that it probably requires detection blocks (and detectors) within the loop, at the turnout (to ensure nothing is on the turnout when it throws) and possibly before the turnout (to tell it to throw the turnout to the straight or normal inbound side). It will also require stationary decoders for the turnouts.
If I am right and the loops are close to each other or stacked, a single block occupancy detector can be used for all 4-6 blocks (BD4 supports 4, BDL168 supports up to 16) and a single stationary decoder (DS54, supports up to 4 outputs) for the two turnouts.
I say “if the loops are close to each other or stacked” because I think the recommended maximum feeder from the block detectors is 10’ . I’m not sure what the range of the DS54 outputs is.
Randy can probably recite more off the top of his head than I can with the book. Or he may refute everything I said and recommend that I be committed![(-D]
I don’t remember the site, but I ran across a setup where the fellow had made the turnout a one way turnout. You always entered the tloop going straight through the turnout. Your always left the loop via the side leg. He fixed the turnout in the, switched to the branch position, and then cut grooves so that a train approaching the turnout from the main line always went straight into the loop. The idea was to do exactly what you describe.
I hope I haven’t totally confused everyone. I found the site by googleing for reverseing loops.
Try: http:www.geocities.com/loggingloco1/dctramway/reverse.htm
Just checked the link. This is the one. It doesn’t require a computer, a switch motor, a decoder, or much of anything but the switch and some diodes.
I think I stand corrected. The SEC8 (signal controller) may be the gadget used as a stationary decoder for the turnouts instead of the DS54. I really wish I had the right book with me to verify what they did.
It has more than enough outputs for a couple of turnouts, as well.
Adelie, the DS54 (and it’s cousins, the DS44 and the new DS64) are stationary decoders that will throw switch machines and do many other things including animation, etc. The SE8C is only used for signaling purposes (up to 32 signal heads). Some (if not all) of the info you want is available at www.digitrax.com
As far as the original point of this thread, perhaps using another output of the PM42 (the Digitrax auto-reverser and circuit breaker) to reverse the direction of the switch? Use one lead to reverse the polarity of the track, use the other to reverse the polarity of the switch.
Paul A. Cutler III
Weather Or No Go New Haven
I know I’m a newbie and all…but I was under the impression that’s what the digitrax software was able to do. Can’t you program all those variables into the computer, if you have an interface? I’m almost certain that’s what I read. Maybe I was lookin out of my bad eye.
as far as i know digitrax doesn’t make software . did you mean decoder pro ? as the name indicates it programs decoders , but it doesn’t do what chip wants to do which is detection of a trains location and automation of switches
yes
no [:D]
have a look at http://www.cti-electronics.com/index.htm
as mentioned above you can also do it with digitrax equipment , but i suspect it will end up costing more , especially if you have to buy software to control it (which i’m not sure you have to do)
this is a subject i’m very interested in as i want to have trains running out of and back into hidden staging while i’m doing switching . it will require computer control , lots of block detection and some programming skills . don’t hold your breath waiting for results !
Photo electric sensors and relays would be able to switch turnouts automatically as you suggest. You would need to set the sensors up to be tripped by the train after it has cleared the turnout. There would be some logic issues to work out but it could be done without involving anything DCC.
Here’s some circuits that will do the job,
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/CircuitIndex.html#35
you would also need to reverse polarity, but that’s easy with DCC
http://www.dccspecialties.com/
Or use a tortoise and a hare which can throw turnouts for you.
Ken.
You will need several things to make this work correctly…
First and foremost, you will need the auto-reversing units for the loops at the ends of the track. If you prefer to stay with Digitrax, the AR-1 are very affordable and work quite well, but you will need two of them and these will not deal with your turnout issues. On the other hand, a single DS54 will not only take care of both reversing sections, but you can also use it to isolate the sections into two electrical blocks and use the inputs to make the turnouts throw automatically.
In addition to the DS54, you will need four BD-1 block detection units. These are installed by simply isolating a section of track with gaps before each of the turnouts. Used in conjunction with the DS54 and once properly setup, you should be able to run trains point to point with no intervention as all the turnout routing and reverse loop polarity issues will be dealt with automatically.
I haven’t tried to use these products in exactly this way, so you may need to purchase some external pieces to make things work, but this should be very limited as the DS54 is a fairly flexible stationary decoder. Another way of doing this would be to use the AR-1 reversing modules, and then purchase the DCC specialties product called the Tortoise and the Hare. This product incorporates a slow motion turnout machine and all the electronics required to automate the turnouts position (keep in mind this won’t work with snap switch motors). Here is a link for it at Tony’s: http://tonystrains.com/technews/hare.htm
Good luck with this project and let us know how it turns out!
Sure they do. Look at this:
http://digitrax.com/prd_compint_pr1.php
It’s still unclear to my small mind if it will do what’s been brought up here…but from the sound of it, I think it might.
Thanks guys I have several ways I can approach this now. Jnichols, you came the closest to what I figured I needed. Although I had done several electronics projects in high school that used photo cells including a burglar alarm that I attached to a school bell then tricked a substitute teacher into setting off–but that’s another story. Photo cells might be cheaper .
I am in the design stage and wanted to be sure that what I wanted to do was feasible. I plan to start actual construction of the layout this winter, but before then, I need to “clean sweep” and do some remodeling. It may be a year or so before I tackle the wiring.
I’ll try to remember to update this post.
i stand corrected . i guess i still don’t know it all [:D]
however PR1 is another decoder programmer and doesn’t detect or automate trains . lots of other good info in this thread though
Like I said, I really didn’t know what it did. Lord knows I sure as hell don’t know nuthin. If I hang around with yall long enuff, maybe somethin will stick.