I’m emphasizing the transition era on my HO layout. I’m considering getting a starter group of UP passenger cars but am a bit confused, and concerned about whether there’s urgency to act soon as availability may change. If you can help sort this out for me, thanks.
Looking at the Walthers HO catalog, I see at least 3 Walthers types of UP cars:
the City series, around late '50’s to '60’s
the Heritage series, , used now as updated '50’s cars, I think
the “Streamlined” cars, ACF and Pullman Standard
My questions include:
how much can/should I mix and match? From a practical standpoint, do the colors match between these series of cars? Are other differences too extreme (diaphragms, window tint, seating, etc? Are the City series and the “Streamlined” cars not from the same period, with the Heritage cars just with different numbering or names?
I don’t particularly want to model current era Heritage trains, rather '40’s - '60’s trains. What mix would accomplish that? Could I mix some City cars with the “Heritage” or streamlined cars and/or a Heritage car (e.g., a dome car) and still have all cars from the manufacture series?
what preceded these yellow cars, when did they disappear (was there overlap with the City cars), and are these types available in HO from anyone? Would I need to buy earlier heavyweight cars and repaint and/or reletter to UP?
I plan to someday acquire a UP Northern (#844 desired), have a Mountain and a Mikado, and wonder what early diesels (or other type steam locos) fit into this plan
One reason for looking into this now is I noticed the Walthers cars are often (in the flyer) much reduced in price so I’ like to buy them at less than $70-80 a pop, plus I note the 2013 catalog shows just 5 City cars vs. 19 the prior year and I don’t want to miss an opportunity…conversely, I don’t w
Usually, the “Heritage” cars are those mid-50s vintage cars currently used for special movements, retiree specials, fan trips, etc. having been manufactured in the mid-50s for the UP City trains. ACF made a bunch of them in their St Charles, MO plant.
The Walthers cars appear to be based on the ACF cars of that period according to the lot photos and other data I have.
The Walthers models date from about 1955 which would be the very end of the steam era on UP.
However the colours of Armour Yellow and Harbor Mist Grey date from mid 1941 and the two trains LA4,5,6 and SF4,5,6 the second full size Cities of Los Angeles and San Francisco. These trains used many articulated cars. The 1937 trains LA1,2,3 and SF1,2,3 were very similar but retained the colours of Leaf Brown and Armour Yellow used since the original M-10000. the cars used from 1941 looked much like those modelled by Walthers but there were of course no dome cars before the 1947 GM Train of Tomorrow (purchased later by UP).
These were the colours of the diesel powered streamliners.
Steam hauled trains were Pullman green, and included some light weight cars, particularly on the Challenger train which was a coach train running at speeds similar to the steamliners.
The streamliners ran through World War II and post war, other major trains like the Challenger and Overland Limited were painted light and dark grey (with a dark window band, not like the post war NYC trains) with silver stripes.
I bit the bullet and bought a combo of Walthers yellow/gray cars (from them and MBKlein) as the prices on many were very good. I ordered 5 City cars, a Milw Road rail post office (I figured UP might borrow it) plus a Heritage ACF dome-lounge observation (closed end) car for the rear end. The MBKlein folks were good enough to eyeball the color match for me between the Heritage car and the City cars, noting the yellow was a bit different (perhaps different suppliers?) but likely close enough. They also measured the height (I cheated on vertical clearances) which was not an issue.
Naturally, after ordering I noted the newest Walthers flyer announcing 4 new City series dome end cars just released…presumeably a perfect color match (but more $). In the end (sorry), I can later order a City end car if I don’t like the color match. I observe they came out with the new City end cars simultaneous with the phase-out of the other City cars that have been out a few years…the nature of the supply/demand process in the hobby these days, I guess.
Long term, I hope to create a train of the gray earlier UP passenger heavyweights. If needed, I’ll paint and decal them. Have an airbrush but no such skills yet (still in the box). Plus lots of work to do on scenery, building freight cars, etc.
Your’e good with the Milw RPO, they were common, might consider a Milw baggage car as well, no one mentioned that UP also used F3’s in passenger service, also don’t get hung on color matching, if I owned these cars, I would at, the vary least repaint the roofs as there were variences causes by shop practices and weathering.
Colors and window tints do not matter. The cars are intermixed and colors fade at different rates. Toward the end of the passenger period even the mighty UP probably let the cars go without special maintenance.
Ergo: LION SAYS: Your trains do not need to match.
There were only four UP F3 A units used in passenger service and only two FP7s (built for NdeM but not purchased) and a similar number of B units. It was nothing like ATSF with fleets of F units. UP ended up with nothing but E8s and E9s and had more Alco PAs and FM Eries than F units in passenger service.
The F units in passenger service were numbered in the 900 series but were renumbered in the 1400 series when returned to freight service.
After the Milwaukee became the Overland route partner, Milwaukee coaches were used in City trains.
Colors - in 1952 the UP standardized on the classic Armour Yellow and Harbormist Gray for ALL passenger equipment. A few heavyweight (aka “Harriman”) - mostly baggage, mail and express types, ran in either Pullman Green or the 2-tone gray scheme into the later 50’s. UP was pretty agressive about passenger car maintenance back then, so the modern equipment was repainted fairly quickly. Older Walthers cars were a a “duller” yellow but don’t look too bad mixed in with the newer cars. Warning - before the “City Streamliners” series Walthers painted many cars in UP colors that were not correct UP prototypes.
“Cities” versus other streamlined cars - there wasn’t really a difference. The consists of a given Streamliner (and later a Domeliner) could change as traffic and marketting varied. The cars came from a general pool, except for some lounges, domes, etc were generally assigned to certain trains.
Other roads - The original Streamliners ran over the CNW to Chicago until 1955 when the routing was changed to the Milwaukee Road. That means until late 1955 you would have a selection of CNW cars painted in UP colors mixed in mith most trains. CNW even bought a number of cars to UP designs. Walthers has marketted several of their cars in CNW lettering and UP colors. After late 1955 the MILW painted many of its cars in UP colors for Streamliner service. Walthers have made a nice selection of these. There were also three PRR sleepers in UP colors but NYC would not repaint their cars. THe PRR and NYC alternated the transcontinental sleeper so they should appear together in the same train. SP carried the City of San Francisco to its namesake city so there were a number of SP cars in the Streamliner pool also. The Wabash carried the City of St. Louis east of Kansas City and there were some Wabash cars (later N&W) in Yellow and Gray
I’m working on putting together a couple of UP passenger consists, mostly with assorted Walthers products. One pleasant recent discovery was a brand of UP Armour Yellow paint which appears to be quite close to the paint used by WKW: It’'s #TCP-26 from Tru-Color Paint of Phoenix, Arizona, (I have no commercial interest in this whatsoever) and so far I’ve been happy using it for painting handrails and for some minor touch-up. I consider it WAY closer to WKW’s paint shade than anything else I’ve seen.
Also, if you’re trying to put together the right cars for a consist and you’re having trouble getting ones with all the right markings, do not despair! I’m modeling the late 1960’s, but I had to settle for a CNW baggage-dormitory car and a “Heritage Fleet” dome diner with “Colorade Eagle” on the side. To my great relief, it was pretty easy to remove the unwanted lettering without damaging the original yellow finish. But don’t do it with alcohol–I experimented with that on a safe spot and and found that it clouds up the paint. Use a mild abrasive, like Barkeeper’s Friend cleanser, moistened into a paste, and gently applied with a softened wet toothpick. (Get Kalmbach’s book, Freight Car Projects and Ideas, if you’re not familiar with this technique.) Of course, you’ll need to restore the proper texture to that affected area of paint, and then apply the new markings you want.
Thanks again for all the great info. As I mentioned, I bought the RPO and 6 passenger cars, due to great sale prices then at Walthers & MBKlein. A train of these at list price would be expensive. The observation car color matches quite close enough to the others. These cars test my 25-26" curves for looks but now track well. One had a correctable problem with a truck that hit a skirt edge when on a curve, but a tad of filing to widen the skirt fixed that.
I’ll be after UP E-series sound engines to pull these but haven’t seen what I want yet. BLI is coming out with an A-B set w/Dcc/sound (one powered) but not sure I will buy that unless there are good reports on that. I bought a refurb SD-40 that is kinda ok but a bit noisy. Wish Kato would produce what I want. I would consider converting DC version but haven’t fund a good DCC ready version available; e.g., Intermountain, Kato. Best bet may be to wait.
Glad to report that yesterday I found a new in box Lifelike Proto 2000 E-6 UP A-B set at the local train show, with DCC/sound. It took me awhile to get the address set as the NCE program on the main one setting long address change did not work right, but following the CV changes to change the address per the manual worked fine. I was concerned, after purchase, about the cracked gear issue on the P2K’s, but on another thread someone noted that the gray boxed items are later versions that do not have the flawed sized gear holes that caused cracking.
The loco behaves a bit funny on acceleration (waits & revs, then moves) and slowing (slows too fast), so I need to see if more CV adjustments are available to adjust those momentum type behaviors.
