I thought I’d go to the experts here. I’m planning a new layout (my first). It will use fastrack (probably close to 100ft of it). I’m building it on benches made from 1x4, 2x4 and plywood top. Layout is 8x12’. Considering that I’m breaking the bank by going w/ Fastrack (because i already have 1/3 of the track collected), what is the best, or easiest, or cheapest way to keep this layout/track quiet? Remember, i’m starting from scratch so if I need to lay down a 8x12 sheet of something on top of the bench(s), I can do this before I get started.
What are your thoughts? What has worked best for you? What is my easiest approach? What is my cheapest approach? What is my best long term + expansion approach?
Also, anyone got a cheap source for Fastrack? I see a couple of websites online that are much cheaper than my local hobby shops. I’ll be using O36,O48, O60 and O72 curves w/ O36 switches (remote and manual).
Oh, anyone found a way to make a 45-degree O48 turn w/ Fastrack? Lionel Support threw in the towel on me. Any success in chopping Fastrack? I only need one 45-degree O48 turn so I’m thinking of doing some cutting.
Wow, could I possible ask any more questions…sorry! This may make ‘hot topic’ status!
I would recommend gluing a layer of soundboard or homasote on top of the plywood. To secure the fastrack to the soundboard, I would recommend running a bead of silicone caulk on the inside edge of the base of the fastrack and then press it into the soundboard. If you need to make changes, you can run a thin blade underneath the track to lift it up & peel off the old caulk. You might try experimenting with a piece or 2 to see what the results are. You could also try filling the hollow cavity beneath the fastrack with expanding foam to see if this makes any additional improvement.
Matt - since you already invested in over 30 ft. of FastTrak, I presume you are past the “point of no return” and are committed to finishing your layout with it, rather than opt for a “quieter” track system. Alas, I don’t think I can recall an EFFECTIVE method of quieting the FasTrak - most do the best they can and live with it.
We need to hear from someone with a similar sized table (8’ X 12’) that has FastTrak that is whisper quiet and hear exactly what they used. I’m wondering if a 1 inch insulation foam sandwich using 1/4 in. ply in the middle, with indoor/outdoor carpeting on the top might help…
Using Homasote or Soundboard is a good idea. I like the idea of using silicone caulk as that will tend to isolate the track from the baseboard. I know that some people have used indoor/outdoor carpet with varying degrees of success–The best carpet seems to be the kind that is sold for use in a marine enviroment, as it has a foam backing.
Filling the hollow underside with foam may work, but then what do you do if you want to sell it?
Hope this helps!
OK, good stuff. If I wasn’t past the point of no return which brand of track would you recommend? How does it size-up costwise? I might be able to offload my fastrack onto my father (who i’m getting back into trains as we speak).
Best way to silence Fastrack is Gargraves. But if you must, I would try the silicone method. You will need to dampen the resonance of the plastic as it ‘sings’. The good thing about the silicone is that you can break its seal leave the silicone blob(s) in as damping and reuse the track if necessary.
Here is some information that I posted a while back on another TRAINS.COM forum. When you use two different densities of foam, the energy in the sound wave gets depleted as it tries to pass from one material to the other. (You physics guys might help me with this.)
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QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter
Cathy,
A friend of mine told me you were looking for some help with sound deadening and asked me to post my ideas.
First of all congratulations on the Polar Express. I purchased one for my daughter who is 25 years old and loves the book. Neat little train and good runner.[:)]
As to the sound deadening, the Polar Express came with Lionel’s Fast Trac, which is what I am assuming you are going to use for the 4x8 layout. This track is somewhat noisy, but we can tone it down by using some simple principles of physics.
What I suggest you do is go ahead and get your plywood table built and then cover it with foam. Directly on top of the plywood put 1" high-density foam. This is the type that is shown in the photo below and can easily be purchased at Lowes or Home Depot. (The photo actually shows 2" foam on a joist type bench work.)
Next purchase 1/2" to 1" of the white beaded foam and put it on top of the high density foam.
Now you have a “sandwich of foam” on top of the plywood. It will knock down the sound fairly good.
Use screws into the foam to hold the track. They don’t even need to go into the plywood. I use deck screws to hold my track. A skirt around the table will also cut down on the sound. A plastic table skirt can be found at a paper party store or someplace similar.
The foam can be painted any
Matt, if you go with the foam as Buckeye has done, I can tell you the Pink board is more solid than the others like the Blue or the White bead board.
FasTrack is just noisy. It’s the way the track was designed, as simple as that. Tubular track is noisy too, but at least there are known ways to deal with that problem that not only work but are also affordable. I think FasTrack was a huge mistake (other than immediate gratification under the CHRISTmas tree), and I think if you did a survey, most modelers would agree. Probably many wi***hey had brought Super 0 track back into production!!
I don’t think 30 feet of track is beyond the point of no return… depends what your track budget is and what you hope to do in the future. I personally like 027 track… it’s cheap, available everywhere, easy to find used, and is available in more than just 27 inch diameter curves if you want to run larger cars and engines.
In terms of realism and affordabilty, the next choice (as mentioned above) is Gargraves. It’s been around for years… the new turnouts from Gargraves have been improved and Gargraves is also available in sectional curves as well as the flex track sections. Also in either wood or plastic ties.
The turnouts are going to be your main cost in whatever track system you go with. The MPC period Lionel 027 turnouts are not the best, but there are the older vintage Lionel ones as well as the new and improved K-Line ones. You can also use Lionel or K-Line 027 track with Gargraves turnouts - they’re both the same height and Gargraves makes mating pins.
Tubular 0 track is also plentiful new and used. The turnouts here are what will cost you. But if you are patient and bargain hunt, you can find these at a good price. Just stay far away from the revised Lionel 0 guage turnouts from around I think 1996 or so - the ones with the removable curve part. These turnouts are junk and no one I know who bought them was happy with them. Lionel soon dropped them too.
The best way to silence Fastrack is: don’t use it.
No amount of securing or damping will totally remove the noise. This is a result of the manufacturing process. In the photo below I have removed one of the rails, to reveal the series of small air pockets. These little echo chambers are the source of the problem. It is not the open space under the roadbed that causes most of the problem.
In the next few months, I’m looking to install a wall-mounted main-line circle in my living room, mounted a few feet below the ceiling, & around the entire parimeter of the room. Since I have no room for a full-sized permanent layout, this is my only option, other than the usual temp. Christmas layouts.
At first I was gonna go with Atlas steel track, since it was recently rated so high in CTT, but when I discovered that it didn’t have built-in road bed, I was considering FasTrack.
Since MTH’s RealTrax isn’t made of much steel and didn’t fare well in the CTT review for electrical conductivity or magnatraction adhesion, I guess I’m back to square #1…
I suppose the tried & true Lionel tube track is the next best thing, unfortuneately.
I’d go with the foam board strategy recommended by Buckeye Riveter. It’s inexpensive, low weight benchwork and will work. All three rail trains are noisy, IMO, track or no track :). FasTrack is a good choice if you want something with built-in roadbed. It’s electrically and structurally much more rugged and reliable than Realtrax, and not any more expensive than Atlas or sectional Gargraves. The only downside right now is the availability of all the sizes and shapes, as you point out. If you want a lot of custom pieces, Gargraves makes sense, but bending it and cutting it yourself takes some skill and knowledge, and the preformed sections are nice, but pricey. Atlas is a good choice too. Tubular is by far the cheapest but most likely to give you lacerations, and you have to like the toy like appearance. If you like the toy like appearance, it’s clearly the way to go, either K-Line or Lionel (the latter is much more readily available). To my ears, none of these track types are loud if placed upon soft, sound absorbent surfaces such as carpet, rubber matting or foam.
Short of a pistol with silencer, I don’t know, unless you go thru the trouble of filling up the tubes and underside of the trackbed with Dap or caulking.
A different approach would be to mask the sound by using locomotives equipped with sound and turn the volume up.
Mattk330
Here’s my advise, take it for what it is worth. Listen to what Big Boy told you. I’m in the process of constructing a new layout that is aproximatly 20’x20’. I ran some tests on my grades using both homesote and foam. I also tried three different types of track including Fast Track, Gargraves, and standard Lionel “O”. All side by side using the same motive power. Bottom line is Gargraves on homesote is the quietest. FORGET the foam ( espescially the red DOW foam) Extreamly LOUD! infact it was louder than when I tried placing the track directly on the plywood! I’m using Gargraves for sure. It’s cheaper in the long run and in my opinion the only way to go.
Last year, Chief Eagles stopped by when he was in Wheeling, WV at the grand opening of the Cabela’s store. He wanted to see what I was doing and how it performed. One of the advantages and disadvantages that I have is the slope of the ceiling reflects the sound out to the operator and viewers.
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QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter
Thank you Chief for those kind words. [:)][:)] I know it is hard for you to say such benevolent statements about a YANKEE from Buckeye Land. [:D]
And now on to the foam. Yes, my whole layout sits on foam. It is high-density 2" foam purchased at Home Depot, one of my favorite stores. The foam sits on joists at approximately 16" spacing. On top of the high density foam sits the 1" white foam.
Again, the Chief is correct, I do use deck screw or drywall screws to hold the track to the foam. If you really have a problem holding to the foam, I use a plastic “Molly” type connection and low heat glue and imbed it. I wished I had taken a photo of this.
The main reasons I used foam were; 1. The layout is designed to move and 2. after shelling out my hard earned money for Railsounds, I wanted to hear it. [:)] The foam accomplished both goals.
Buckeye is right. I stopped by his place last year. I saw the construction. Then he ran the trains [not as fast as I do [;)]]. No noise except rails sounds and with them off, none at all. I’m convienced that foam is the trick. Now he has RealTrax and not FasTrax. I do know the foam is the best quitner in the bunch. I saw it and did not hear it. [:)] [BTW, Buckeye is some super structional engineer by degree and trade. His bench work is light but strong and quite. Why not follow the professional?]
